To be annoyed that not all year 6 children that want to return to school can?

[spongebunnyfatpants]

This is not a teacher or school bashing thread, I'm just interested in people's thoughts.

My child is in year 6, we have just been informed that out of a class of 30 only 10 children will be allowed to return to school because they don't have the staff to provide for any more.

These 10 children will be chosen on a first come first served basis, we have to email if we want our child to return.

This means that some children who want to return won't be able to.

AIBU to think that this is very unfair and that part time schooling for more groups would be more appropriate rather than one group in all the time.

@HaudYerWheeshtYaWeeBellend government guidance is just guidance though, they don't have to follow it. Lots are planning rotas.

YANBU where are all the teachers and TAs?

Room space is our main issue with no flexibility in our old Victorian school.

We have a max of 10 rooms available to us. We are an infant school but have three form entry. So each year group needs 6 class spaces in bubbles of 15, plus we need at least one for the KW children.

The teaching staff will be busy so don't worry. No ones being paid to sit at home doing nothing

I work in London in an office with over 1,000 people. All commute. Average age 40-50 and yes loads of overweight middle aged men (quite like Boris). We have had around 230 cases all mild. No hospital admissions let alone anything worse.

You still have 1000 people working in an office? Is there no way to allow these staff to WFH?

but our parents are very child focussed

Yeah, because obviously the parents in FamilyofAliens' school don't give a fuck about their children's well being.
@SeasOfChangeI really hope you are a parent and not a member of staff at the school.

Bake well.
Do these adults lick each other’s faces or do they broadly understand social distancing?
My issue is not with returning, and I would have supported it more for Years 5 and 6, but little children are coming back to school after weeks at home, to find it staffed by different people with all the things they normally do taken away.
No dressing up, no soft toys, no play dough, no sand, no books (can’t clean them easily between uses and how much education are we really doing with no books?). No toy garage (too many small parts that can’t be easily cleaned). We’ve taught them to share, now we’ll be constantly reminding them that sharing is not ok. Don’t hug your friend, if your friend is even there. Don’t climb on the climbing frame.

I do worry about teachers but I also worry about what coming in to this environment will do to the youngest children in our school.

@HaudYerWheeshtYaWeeBellend government guidance is just guidance though, they don't have to follow it. Lots are planning rotas.

Yes it is, an act is just an act and not law, yet they are respected, guidance is guidance and no head teacher worth their salt is going to not follow set guidance given to them by the government unless they cannot be sure they cannot meet the safety and policy guidance.

Hence why Hartlepool, Gateshead and government have decided against the opening of schools and why Scotland, Ireland and Wales have not lifted lockdown restrictions.

*liverpool

@babybythesea they can still share toys, just not food. Adults can still read books to the children! They can have individual pots of playdough - plastic bricks, small world toys etc just need to be regularly cleaned and not shared between groups. It will be different but not terrible.

Yes we can still read books to them but they are not supposed to be having books out, say in a book corner, to look through themselves. We can’t clean them quickly enough.
Yes there will be some toys, I didn’t say there wouldn’t. But in our setting, there is a lot that we can’t use.

@HaudYerWheeshtYaWeeBellend the guidance literally states that it is just guidance and schools don't have to follow it.

So it is the first ten parents who email? Is there a date from which “applications” will open, or did they allow people to reply as soon as the explanatory email was received? That seems unfair if someone was working or otherwise engaged and didn’t open it till later than some others. Are they going to be able to prove to parents what order the emails arrived in- send round a screenshot of the head’s inbox or something?!

they are not supposed to be having books out, say in a book corner oh God my 4 yo would refuse to go in on day 2

No, they're just going to pick the " nice " children and the rest have to stay at home

Hi, I think from talking to a few teachers and heads that some schools are working out how many they can safely fit in, in all the classrooms. They are then listing the children from Keyworker Children first, Vulnerable children next, Nursery children, Reception children, Year 1 and Year 6 children. If the school has a lot of keyworker attending and not a lot of staff and classroom space then it looks like by the time they get to the Year 6 children then there won't be any spaces left.

It is how some authorities want schools to work. They have been told not to teach part time and have more children in but have the children full time that attend and has far less children.

Cary, the thing is that the priority (in terms of year groups to be prioritised, with Y6 being the last) is not only in the more chatty recent guidance with the 'may do something different' proviso, but also in the first set of guidance, which has no such statement:

www.gov.uk/government/publications/actions-for-educational-and-childcare-settings-to-prepare-for-wider-opening-from-1-june-2020/actions-for-education-and-childcare-settings-to-prepare-for-wider-opening-from-1-june-2020

"If necessary, settings have the flexibility to focus first on continuing to provide places for priority groups and then, to support children’s early learning, settings should prioritise groups of children as follows:

• early years settings – 3 and 4 year olds followed by younger age groups
• infant schools - nursery (where applicable) and reception
• primary schools – nursery (where applicable), reception and year 1

The word 'should' in government guidance is quite a strong one, and generally used in contexts which do not mean 'but of course it's absolutely fine to do something different if you choose to do so, this is just a suggestion'

@HaudYerWheeshtYaWeeBellend the guidance literally states that it is just guidance and schools don't have to follow it.

I haven’t said otherwise I’ve said some schools are doing their own thing, Liverpool, Scotland etc...

Schools aren’t going to put more children in class above the guidance and risk the lives of their employees, children and the wider community.

Not to mention the negativity/outrage that they would be subjected too if they didn’t adhere to the policy that has been made public.

Lots of people don't realise that this may be impossible for small primaries with few staff. I live in an area with many small village primaries with mixed year group classes and only a few teachers. If one or two were shielding or couldn't get childcare, they wouldn't be able to open.

Some of the year 6s are in for a shock when they find out I'm teaching them, I'm the Head!

At my village primary, the Head is the full time teacher of the year4/5/6 class !

We’re not sending reading books home.

The bubble idea is a bit odd, especially if parents get no input.

My DD for example has seen her best friend. They walked the dog. She will continue to see her. It would make sense for them to be in the same bubble.

I’m aware we’ve started talking about children as though they infected with the virus and need to be in a bubble. It doesn’t reflect their life’s outside school. On my walk today I saw several groups of children playing in the woods. Bubbles might be a nice idea on paper but they seem a bit academic given the real world.

Some pretty judgmental posts on here.

It doesn't surprise me that different schools will end up offering a different level of provision. Different buildings, mix and number of kids, different staff. Am assuming why it's guidance, to give a degree of flex.

We are sending our y6 dd back, pending specifics at the time. She doesn't have to go back because of work nor am I a key worker.

I am not expecting school as normal. There is nothing normal about life with covid. She knows this and reality will be hard.

I cannot see the current situation working for long. Our wonderful teachers have worked really hard but it's a short term solution, not a long term one. September is a long time off. If this phased return to school in June doesn't work, we will need serious planning for September.

The logistics of it are an utter nightmare and the stuff about putting kids into smaller groups making no sense whatsoever in practice.

Take reception. At our school its 60 kids.

You ultimately still have 60 lots of parents who are going to end up mixing in the school playground even with staggered drop offs. You try and keep kids apart if they do. Or you have the nightmare of a wide range of drop off times (and if you have year 1 and year 6 in, you need up to 12 different drop off times and may have parents hanging about for siblings anyway)

And within the school either there is no dinner (cos they will all be in the same area which isn't allowed under the guidance) or you have the risk of all groups being exposed via the kitchen (if dinners / sandwiches are delivered to classrooms) or you have vulnerable children eligible for free school lunch who don't get it or you have no lunchtime cover for teachers from dinner ladies. Or you have a situation like, one of the dinner ladies who has a daughter in reception, so either she has to be in her daughters group (they have gone to efforts to avoid putting mum and daughter together for the rest of the year) or you get cross contamination.

The more I think about the logistics, the more I wonder how on earth it can be done in line with the guidelines. Our head is brilliant, but even she has her limitations.

The nonsense of these smaller classes in English schools which simply are completely the wrong size and have restricted access points is ridiculous. The guidelines were not written with the consultation of the Department of Education or anyone with experience with state schools and it really shows.

All these smaller classes are based on the notion that its somehow 'safer'. Well either its safe for kids and staff or its not. And thats before you discuss whether 1st June is a) viable b) too early anyway.

I think a lot of parents and children haven't got their heads around how different school will be in these conditions. There may well be less education going on than a lot expect. And its certainly not going to be normal fun. Many won't be with their regular teacher or friends. Some may not be with a teacher at all. I can't wait for the moaning about why my child has the TA and not the teacher and how this disadvantages them nonsense.

In the case of the OP, I don't think there should be first come first served. If they can't give places to everyone it has to be done better than that.

It should be on a points system based on need - welfare, educational and how much parents need / are struggling. First come first served favours the better off kids for a variety of reasons and thats not right.

As it stands DS is doing great at home in all respects. It would be awful if going back was based on how quickly we responded and he got a place over a child who is struggling at home in some way or has a parent struggling at home.

He absoluetely shouldn't. No matter how good it might be for him or how its good for him, because its the fairest option to all children in the class in terms of access to education.

Thats what it should be about - who has the best access to education if they are at home and who has the least access if they are at home. Fair is about trying to give all the kids the best opportunity to access education.

I'm pretty sure that most schools have a fair idea over who is engaging and has assess to education and who doesn't. And many will have an idea about many parents who may be struggling.

I don't plan to send DS back until September at this point unless something significant changes even though hes reception for all these reasons.

The whole thing is so badly thought out its untrue.

As it is several North West councils have already said no to 1st June. There's nothing from ours yet as far as I'm aware but it wouldn't surprise me. The local news reported tonight that the Manchester Nightingale IS still operational and DOES still have patients. Its the only one in the country that does. That doesn't exactly suggest that conditions to ease restrictions further have been met.

Pandemics aren't fair.
And nobody is promised a fair life.

Children in school are going to do better obviously. Teachers and TAs are usually good at keeping children focused whereas the children at home have lost motivation.
I understand it's a safety thing but how long are some children going to be made to stay home? S September? Christmas? Next year? I mean it's not suddenly going to be safe is it? You really think children's education won't suffer. Okay then.

1 TA to 15 students. Several will have SEN/their own difficulties. They won't have usual resources.

It's basically going to be supervision.

Children's education in NZ didn't suffer after the devastation of the Christchurch earthquake, as it goes rosebel. Schooling was disrupted for nearly two years.