To think soon it won’t be socially acceptable to fly

[Pigletspal]

I’m sad because I’ve been saving up for 6 years to go on holiday. I want to go to South America and Southeast Asia next year. I’ve also just got a job with a decent wage and I have been looking forward to much to making holidays a regular thing.

But they’re about to get more expensive aren’t they?

And suddenly I feel guilty about wanting to fly. One of my friends has already said that she will be going on “one last” foreign holiday and then stopping due to climate change.

And I really want to save the planet too. I’m just sad that it’s all going this way.
Am I overreacting or shall I get used to the idea my travelling days are numbered?

At the moment, the top 10% of UK fliers account for HALF of all all flights abroad. And the top 1% of fliers account for nearly a fifth of flights. These are not people taking their holidays (even if they have two or three holidays).

www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/sep/25/1-of-english-residents-take-one-fifth-of-overseas-flights-survey-shows

The problem is people (like I used to work with) who literally fly every day in some cases and who brandish their BA gold cards with pride. I got up to silver ONCE in a very hectic year and I was flying twice a week in some cases for one hour meetings and then straight back to the airport again. I can't imagine how much those gold card holders must have been flying - it was always the same people too, after a while I started recognising people like on a regular commute. It was so stupid and I hope that lockdown has made that company realise they don't need to fly people around that much, it was infuriating and absolutely destroyed my family life. And yet I had colleagues though who would brag about it, tell their families they HAD to fly out that much, tell me I HAD to be physically present for a 10am meeting in Geneva and be back in the office in London at 8am the next morning (repeat 2 or 3 times in a week). Or a flight to Tokyo for two meetings justified with "oh in Japan they need to meet in person, it's essential, you can't do a video call, it's disrespectful" and then back the next day and later that week fly somewhere else. Or multiple people I know who worked in one city but whose families were in another, and who flew from eg. London to Hamburg or New York to San Francisco twice a week as a result.

I know there are always justifications for each individual trip but I think there needs to be a sliding scale of how much of a carbon levy you pay. If you are in that top 10% or top 1% you or your company need to start paying some hefty levies and think hard about whether that flight is really needed when it suddenly costs 5x as much because you have flown too much this year.

@squeekums I don't think flying is some big evil.

I did my first solo flight at the age of 16, having trained through the RAF. I love flying.

But the reality is that we will have to fly less in future and it needs to be more expensive. It won't be fun, but it will be necessary.

We might not return to the very cheap flights but that was a fairly recent trend.

It shouldn't cost £30 to fly hundreds (or thousands) of miles to Europe in only a few hours.

IMHO the first indicator that perhaps the economics of short haul flying was perhaps getting out of kilter and was heading for the mad house was when people began to accept that paying more to park their cars at the airport/take the train to the airport than they would pay for the flight itself made any sort of sense.

If I could never see the world again, you might as well kill me now.

I have travelled a fair bit. I love it. Last year I went to a place I had wanted to go all my life - since I read a book set there when I was 7. I saved up for four years and took my children. It was everything I had hoped for and more. I'm really grateful and relieved that I did because I don't think it will be possible and if it is I am not sure I would ever be in a position to do that trip again in the future.

I'm lucky and don't have a burning desire to go anywhere else for a while but I am tired of sanctimonious know it alls who were never bothered about travelling or holidays themselves, seeming to take delight in telling me smugly I won't be able to go anywhere again for A Long Time If Ever. There's a lot of those types on MN and right here on this thread actually.

*You don't need a plane to go on holiday

Sure beats a few days in the car driving and even after corona, it will probably still be cheaper to fly over drive.
Once you factor in some drives you would need extra accommodation, allow for breakdowns, petrol fluctuation, food and random stops along way.
Where as fly, pay your fare, you get to airport, hop on and get there in a couple hours, get an uber or hire car and your set.

Plus once this all over airlines will be begging for customers, bring on the deals and discounts to get people flying

Depends on the circles you move in. The rich and powerful will keep flying. Tourists will but the airlines will need to make money. Ryanair will gouge us for everything. The days of cheap travel and jets flying everywhere may be coming to an end or science will need to reinvent the jet engine. Do you want a planet that's habitable or a cheap trip to magaluf

IMO the era of very cheap flights will be over, at least for quite a while.,

Maybe 6 years ago a friend and I flew from Bristol to Palma (Majorca) for £45 return each, no extras, we only had hand baggage.
It wasn’t high season, but even so, although obviously we weren’t complaining! - it was considerably cheaper than a ordinary return rail ticket for many journeys within England, never mind the wider U.K.

I hope so, there's just no need apart from selfishness.
We all want to go, business wants us to go, but non of it is essential.
hopefully prices will go up and few will be able to afford it.

You don't need a plane to go on holiday

For people in the North, they a day of their holiday just getting to/from the channel. Eurotunnel and ferries may be good for those living in the SE but not particularly accessible for those a few hundred miles away.

It’s hard to say on pricing however as short haul airlines may do the same and supply cheap flights to build up demand. And after the pandemic this could revert back to how it was. Unless they really can’t afford it which may well be the case of course.

A lot of pp do want it not to go back to this and that’s fair enough, trouble is if people can afford it they will most likely keep flying as they were.

Really have to end the stupidity of people going for stag/hen weekends to Magaluf or Amsterdam or similar. Just why? You can get stoned/shagged at Blackpool with far less damage to the environment.

I think short term it will probably increase somewhat .However these "Bargain flights" are not as cheap when you look at the impact on the enviroment .Less than £50 to Europe ,or flying in UK as well.Long haul for most people is a rarer event ,and is less damaging overall.I will be looking forward to flying again, but only go abroad on occasions and have UK hols as well.Many countries rely on Tourism and there are a lot of people involved with Airlines as well .

This old chestnut.. You don't need to fly across the globe to go on holiday, though.
You do if you want decent weather and something more far flung than Europe !
I also could never go on a holiday via boat, I get terribly seasick

@Lockhart i didnt say anyone in particular did but on mn there some threads where anyone who dare fly is akin to the devil.

I do find it a bit rich for you to say I love flying, flew my whole life but nah younger people shouldn't have the chances, cos essentially that's what your saying, why should we fly less? Not all believe in denying ourselves things simply cos of climate change.
It don't have to be more expensive and I think they will go for volume of sales over high price to make money so cheaper flights will return. Once borders open up more, flights will pick up again

You don't need a plane to go on holiday

You do if that holiday is visiting a sister in Sydney.

Most people are far too selfish to stop flying for long. I don’t understand why people think that flying for holidays is more acceptable than business travellers either. I think business travel might be lower initially, but it will pick up again. Flights will be more expensive though, so business travellers that used to fly in first class or business will be downgraded by their companies. It happened after 9/11 too. Lots of grumpy business men in premium economy. (although online business meetings are probably a lot better than they were in those days)

I think it's been socially less acceptable in some circles for a while now but the vast majority aren't bothered, or can justify it to themselves and that's unlikely to change.

I do think flying (and lots of other things) is about to get much more expensive and the cheap city break/affordable Mediterranean family holiday will be a thing of the past.

Just from what I've seen of the way the company is working and planning, I'm certain DH will be doing far less business travel.

Both of these things will significantly reduce air travel.

I think that business travel will reduce for a year or two but I very much hope that holidays will get back to normal much sooner as this has shown me that I have to make the most of the time I’ve got and there is a lot of the planet that I want to see.

Is the answer not just for us all to fly less?

My boss was about to fly to New York to discuss our business strategy. That nonsense has to stop. As does frequent weekends to cities.

But I think most people could justify one or two smaller flights a year

Airlines run on small margins and it’s very price sensitive these days. So a £5 reduction for example might push your offer to the top of a comparison type site, which a lot of people use to book.

@squeekums "flew my whole life", "younger people"?

I'm 30. Not exactly old...

And no, I haven't flown my whole life. I have been on holidays abroad. I would like to go on holidays abroad in the future.

I just think we will all need to go on fewer holidays abroad in the future. Not that we can't go at all (have you read my posts?).

With respect, what one generation had before is not the blueprint for what the next generation should have no matter the consequences.

If we are doing harm - be it to local communities or the environment - we should recognise that and stop. Especially since holidays abroad are a luxury and a privilege, not a necessity.

You flying once every couple of years is not the problem. Be mindful, make efforts with every aspect of your life, and see as much of the beautiful planet as you can.

It'll only be an issue for you if you let what is "socially acceptable" have an impact on you.

I don't fly because I just hate flying, but in the wider context of things, I don't particularly care what the neighbours think of me, or a random online forum or whatever, so I wouldn't let that affect my decision making process.