Parents wfh and the furloughed for childcare

[baskininjoe]

I am childless, currently by choice because I am in my twenties but do plan to have a child in the future at some point.

AIBU to be getting annoyed with the short end of the stick that the childless are getting right now with everything regarding childcare and lockdown.

I have so many colleges who are currently wfh whilst looking after children. I completely sympathise and understand this is hard but I am really starting to get annoyed with them being less productive, and logging less hours for the same pay (no reduction), whilst the rest of us are expected to pick up the slack, and work more hours to make sure tasks still get completed, whilst not being paid anymore for our extra time and effort. I know there is no perfect solution but it really grates on me that they aren't being paid for what they complete which could therefore compensate the rest of us for the extra we are having to do because they are not fully fulfilling their role.

On top of this with the idea of school provisionally going back in June some of these parents have said they will not be sending their DC to school, despite a place being open and available to them, and therefore expect the rest of us to continue to pick up their slack because they can't work as productively whilst looking after their children.

My housemate (shared house) works in a place where many parents have been furloughed for childcare reasons, despite their being lots of work to do, just because they've asked to be. This means that my housemate has been incredibly stressed as the workload is still high but the team is now smaller, whilst many of their colleges are receiving 80% on the taxpayer, despite their actually being work for them to do, all because they complained to their employer that it was too hard working with children and thus asking to be furloughed. This is especially grating as it is taxpayer money that is being used to pay them, despite their actually being a job they could do and be payed for.

I am not at all against the furlough scheme, another of my housemates work in a restaurant and is also on furlough and this is absolutely the right thing as they can not work, despite wanting to, as their place of work is not allowed to open.

However I think:

1. Some employers and employees are taking the piss by allowing staff to be furloughed/asking to be furloughed despite their actually being a job to do. Which then negatively affects the rest of the teams as the work level remains the same but there are less people to do the work so the remaining people have to work harder with no extra pay.

1. Employers need to be understanding but also firm with parents that although some productively will be affected by having DC at home, a certain level still needs to be consistently met or they are not doing their job properly and that negatively affects the business and the rest of the team.

1. Employers need to be especially understanding and grateful to employees still working, who are picking up the slack for those not being as productive because of DC at home/furloughed for childcare reasons despite their still being work. And actually need to consider financially compensating them for the high level of extra work and overtime and/or promise to look at these people first for upcoming promotions as as they have shown serious dedication to the business.

1. Employers should not be allowing parents to choose not to send DC to school when they can if it continues to affect the parents productivity level.

I understand this is a hard time for everyone, and parents do have it hard with few childcare options for DC, however that is not the problem of their colleagues and they should not be negatively affected by being expected to work far far more for no extra gain. My housemate and I are stressed beyond belief both having to work 10-12 hours every day for what would be a 9-5 office job in order to pick up the slack for colleagues whilst not being paid anymore whilst these colleagues are only completely 4-6 hours a day yet continuing to be paid the same as us. And on top of this are expecting it to continue despite their child being able to go to school soon because they are choosing not to send them.

@SuitedandBooted that is my experience at the moment as well. I have more sympathy for parents who are struggling to juggle it all than those who don’t have any other responsibilities and are using working from home as an excuse to scale right back in their work.

But it’s not acceptable for the person who is then having to absorb the work that is being left - to the extent that they are working nearly the hours of 2 full time jobs - to say that they can’t do 2 full time jobs

Firstly, the OP is doing a couple of hours a day extra. That doesn’t equate to another full time job.

Secondly, the overwhelming response I this thread has been that she should talk to her boss about only doing her contracted hours. Not bitch endlessly about parents who didn’t ask to be put in this situation and have enough on their plate.

Heyduggee - that's incorrect. If the employee isn't able to do their contractual hours then they are not fulfilling their part of the contract. Redundancy has nothing to do with it.
If they cannot do the hours then they should either take unpaid leave (time off for dependants) or reach a compromise with employer for the time being. If they do not want to explore either then I suppose it would be a disciplinary matter though I wouldn't expect in practice it would ever get to that. Nobody in their right mind would demand to be left to do half of the job for the full pay surely.

Like I said I'm not advocating unpaid leave. I'm advocating reaching a suitable compromise which requires flexibility on both sides.

I'm advocating reaching a suitable compromise which requires flexibility on both sides.

No you’re not, let’s be honest here.

not intending to put my head above the parapet but this is a very unpleasant thread (which I have only skimmed through ). I do not quite understand the bitterness as the OP raised some very relevant points.
Can I just say - maybe I am over-sensitive- - but I despise the word non-parent as it is used in the same way as non-white to denote the person is outside the norm and somehow less worthy. If there was such a word as non-young I am sure it would be used on MN too - ah - I forgot it is 'oldie'

@oblada and I said an employer cannot force an employee to take a reduction in pay. This is a temporary situation in which employers need to be flexible - they can and have to pay people in full unless they want to go down performance/disciplinary route which would not hold up in an ET or redundancy If they cannot continue to pay people. Many people are being flexible in their approach and employers need to offer the same courtesy.

Laurie - actually I am... not sure what makes you think I am not....?

Look, this is getting like Groundhog Day Oblada. Read back if you don’t understand the point I’m making.

non-parent as it is used in the same way as non-white to denote the person is outside the norm and somehow less worthy
It really isn't used like that. Everyone in this thread has been pretty clear that they don't expect childfree/childless/non-parent (one of these will offend someone) colleagues to take on all of their work to the extent of working a second full-time job, let alone because they're less worthy.

We're simply saying that picking up 1–2 hours extra work to support your colleagues during a global crisis is not a huge ask, and if anyone is overloaded it's the fault of employers, not the fault of parents who, once again, didn't start the pandemic and aren't plotting against you all using pangolins, 5G and what wiles we have left after combining night wakings, home schooling and trying to meet our KPIs.

I agree that this is a horrible thread. This is an awful situation for everyone and no one has the long straw.

In my 20s I too got royally fucked off at parents leaving on time when I stayed late. Now I realise that I could have gone too and I only didn’t as I thought I should stay later. OP you need to talk to your boss calmly about your own situation. And when you do come to submit your reports on time and productivity I personally think it is a tad unprofessional to relate gossip about who wants to go back to school and who doesn’t just because someone has told you that, unless of course people are fully aware of your intentions when they share this with you.

@HeyDuggeesCakeBadge

expecting some leeway from employers and colleagues is not entitled.

Not employers, no. Expecting leeway from colleagues is entitled. Your children are not their problem.

HeyDuggee - no way would an ET expect staff who cannot work full hours due to childcare reasons to be paid full pay regardless so it would definitely be a disciplinary process... bonkers to think otherwise.. Being flexible isn't the same as paying people for work they do not actually do. A very entitled way of looking at it. If I couldn't do my full hours I wouldn't just stand my ground and expect my salary in full, I'd take some leave (unpaid/annual leave) and/or negotiate different hours/pay with my employer.
Of course I'm talking about a significant drop in work/productivity along the lines of what the OP was suggesting so working 4-5h instead of your 8hr or the equivalent productivity wise.

Yawn.

Well let's just hope nothing like this happens when you do became a parent. I doubt you will be happy and willing to take a pay cut.

@thebitchofvicar

Not at all, I fully intend to continue working.

It's about taking some time for me before I have a child, because once you have a child your time is no longer your own, they always come first. So I'm going to take a year of a couple to travel, go out whenever I want, to go on spontaneous trips and do what I want for a while before I settle down with a child.

@binkybix

"You do sound very angry OP"

I'm not angry about the work situation, frustrated but not angry. I'm angry with the posters on here who think it's ok to use me personally as an emotional punching bag, directing vitriol, threats and Ill fortune toward me. I'm angry that just because I didn't mention my MC in my first poster some posters though it ok to tell me I'm lucky i don't have kids. I'm angry at people telling me to grow up, insulting me professionally and personally. And I'm angry that some posters seem to think that just because their life is hard no one else's who doesn't have kids can possibly have it hard to and therefore has no right to complain about the unfair situation that they too have been left in.

"So parents who have asked to be furloughed because they knew they couldn't do the job properly while looking after kids are bad, also parents who tried to carry on and are, duly, struggling to do the job properly are also bad."

I've never said parents are bad, I understand the situation is shit and they can't help it. However both of these examples inadvertently put more pressure on remaining colleagues (the majority of whom are the childless), and so the situation is shit for us ASWELL. Not instead of, not more or less so, as well.

@lauriemarlow

"When it’s being used as a stick to beat parents with (who have been making significant sacrifices during this crisis) it really rankles."

Everyone has made significant sacrifices during the crisis. Not just parents. This pisses people off. When parents think they're the only ones making sacrifices and fail to realise that the rest of us are making sacrifices too. Often to facilitate parents need (I understand it's a need not a want) for extra time away from work. We are all making sacrifices right now and everyone should be appreciated for it.

@welcometothenorth

" I can’t muster any sort of sympathy or compassion for you"

How horrible. Just because your situation is hard, probably harder than mine, doesn't mean mine isn't hard too. EVERYONE who is finding it hard deserves sympathy and compassion, and you're really showing yourself to be selfish and self absorbed by not understanding this.

@oblada

"But what I'm against is a God given right to receive full pay for doing half the work."

Yes this. I understand it in the short term, for say 3-6 months whilst this is an unprecedented. However it many posts on MN are to be believed and this is going to last 18 months - 2 years, or this virus will be forever and just become a part of normal life then this needs to go away. Otherwise that is discrimination against the childless if it becomes a long term expectation that parents can do half the work for full pay whist the rest of us pick up their slack (again I am saying if this becomes part of normal life, not in the 3-6 months where this is new and unprecedented).

@chopc

Thank you for understanding where I'm going with this without being blinded by a red mist of anger. And for the record I've been expected to work holidays, weekends, out of office hours above parents every time simply because I am childless and this cuts into 'family time', that is direct discrimination, but so many parents think this is fine because otherwise their kids would be affected. I second that parents can't only want equal rights when it suits them. I have just as much of a right to my weekend off as you do.

@teabaseddiet

Because it is my job! It is my job to know about productivity, hours worked, and when parents are prepared to make sacrifices such as sending their children back to school. That is literally part of the job I have been tasked with and if it wasn't me it would be someone else. I'm not being nosy. I have been assigned to do this.

@forgetaboutthis

"If I got up before my child, and worked late after they went to bed, I wouldn't have any time to actually sleep. Or get any exercise. Or speak to anyone else."

And there are many childless people who because they are picking up the slack don't get any time to exercise, or speak to anyone else, or sleep as much as they should be able to. This level of busyness is not exclusive to working parents. EVERYONE is ridiculously busy and not having time for these things.

@laurie marlow

"She’s doing 10-12 hour days. With the greatest of respect, that’s not being worked to breaking point"

It is on top of everything else going on in my life right now. You consistently fail to acknowledge that just because I don't have kids doesn't mean I don't have a million other things going on which I have to do on top of these 10-12 hours (nearly always closer or above the 12 end of this spectrum). I'm not saying WP's aren't busy. But they aren't the only ones that are busy. We all are.

@SinisterBumFacedCat

"Why should working parents have time to catch up on TV, reading a book etc

I don’t know, their mental health maybe? Because they are human and not machines?

I’m guessing the Op has time to eat, read and watch Netflix UNINTERRUPTED. And gets a guaranteed 8 hours sleep UNINTERRUPTED."

Working parents should have this free time yes, but not at the expense of their childreee colleagues who, because they are picking up the slack, don't have time for any of this themselves. You have made some massive assumptions about me. No I don't have time to eat, read and watch Netflix uninterrupted, I don't have a guaranteed 8 hours of sleep a night. Once again, just because I don't have kids doesn't mean I don't have a million other things to do so stop making assumptions about all my supposed free time.

@LindaLyndell

"Also, you don't know how to spell colleagues 🙄"

You really think it's appropriate to be this snide in a thread where someone is talking about how they are stressed. I'm sorry spelling is not my top priority on an anonymous thread on an Internet forum. I'm dyslexic and colleagues is a difficult word. My point is still being got across. There's really no reason to be so rude.

@mistystar99

"OP can't come back for a while, she's busy compiling a little snitching chart for her bosses about who isn't pulling their weight and should lose their job. Great addition to society, OP!"

What an incredibly snide and rude comment. Insulting both me and the job I do. I have t come back for a while because yes I have been working, I've also been running around looking after others, I woke up at 5 and having a panic attack. I still have to cook and clean too. Sorry I've not been back to check my thread for a while but believe it or not even though I'm currently childless I am still busy!

@geelneverthoughtofthat

"But it’s not acceptable for the person who is then having to absorb the work that is being left - to the extent that they are working nearly the hours of 2 full time jobs - to say that they can’t do 2 full time jobs. "

This! This exactly! Thank you for expressing it so well. I am not currently but every week my work creep up in hours and I get closer and closer to doing the work of 2 full timers.

@duchessofealing

"And when you do come to submit your reports on time and productivity I personally think it is a tad unprofessional to relate gossip about who wants to go back to school and who doesn’t just because someone has told you that, unless of course people are fully aware of your intentions when they share this with you."

Yes people are fully aware, not because it is my intention to 'gossip' but because it is actually my job to find out these things and report them back. Everyone know when I call them and ask these questions that I am doing so as part of my job to report on circumstances so flexibility can be afforded and allowances made depending on ever changing situations. So please do not judge my professionalism or brand me a gossip for simply fulfilling all aspect of my job.

Nobody in their right mind would demand to be left to do half of the job for the full pay surely.

But nobody is "demanding".The parents I know are doing their absolute best to keep all the plates spinning. I've escalated conversations I've had with two colleagues who are friends, both FT working mothers who are grafters and always deliver. They were in a bad place mentally, fearing they are failing at everything but being fearful of saying anything - my boss intervened and gave them the reassurance they needed. He sent flowers to one and gave another a paid day off. He knows the value they bring, even if that's not realised right now. If he were to have reduced their pay, the consequences would have been awful. Bigger picture thinking. He wouldn't treat them with disdain.

@oblada is making some excellent points which I agree with fully. Yes this situation is shitting on most people from all sorts of angles, but to expect full pay (sometimes from small companies who can barely stay afloat) when not doing anything like the full work is an astounding level of entitlement. It’s a salary, not a benefit. My company and my husband’s have taken exactly the approach that oblada recommends, being exceptionally flexible and allowing working hours that they would never normally agree to, or reduced hours etc. Both DH and I are on slightly reduced hours and so are working effectively in shifts without being exhausted. We are also saving around £600 per month from nursery being closed so we’re better off financially overall despite the reduced earnings. Before I get leapt on, yes I know we’re very lucky but I’m sure we’re not alone in this.

A PP mentioned that perhaps savings in childcare could counter a temporary reduction in many parents’ hours/wages which was quickly shot down by @LaurieMarlow who said she was still paying ‘a percentage’ of fees. Interestingly without clarifying what that percentage is. I and everyone I know with kids in nursery are paying between 0-20% as a holding fee and thereby saving hundreds. Of course there will be people that isn’t the case for, but for a significant number of people, I do believe that the savings allow for flexibility in reducing hours to a more manageable level.

@Oblada i think everything you say is entirely correct in a BAU situation, which this isn't. It couldn't do be further away.

I still don't see your solution, OP! I see that you feel very hard done by and are extremely stressed out in this all-round stressful situation. I get that. But what do you expect your Co workers with kids to do with their kids? You complained that they took furlough and left too much work, but also complained that the others stayed and you feel can't do enough work. This is the fault of the pandemic, not your colleagues.

Insisting money is taken from them just makes you look petty as that would still have zero effect on your own situation.

In any case furlough is a government backed scheme, so your company is not having to stump up for their enviable carefree lifestyles or at least not more than 20%. Go ahead and make the case to your management that the money saved on wages by furlough should be redirected to you if you want.

OP you say people are aware so that flexibility can be afforded which is quite different from declaring when expecting redundancies. In the current awful climate we have my team download to me because I check in on them, I’m sure if they thought it was going to be used to decide who would have a job then they wouldn’t share. You did come across in a manner in your earlier post as though you were gleeful at sharing this information - clearly you didn’t mean it that way and if not I apologise. Everyone has it tough, talk to your employer and I hope you get the answers you are looking for.

Yes OP, what do you propose we do with our children while we give our all to work?

It’s not like we’ve been behind hand in asking you.

Because it is my job! It is my job to know about productivity, hours worked, and when parents are prepared to make sacrifices such as sending their children back to school. That is literally part of the job I have been tasked with and if it wasn't me it would be someone else. I'm not being nosy. I have been assigned to do this.

OP - it is not your job to give parents a hard time because YOU feel the risk to their/their children's health is worth taking by sending them back to school. "Making sacrifices" here could be literally sacrificing lives because this ridiculous government thinks schools should open (regardless of the opinion of the BMA, teaching unions, a number of local councils etc). Do you realise that parents won't be fined for not sending their children to school in June/July? That's because they're aware that it's a parental choice based on parents own risk assessment (and that they're strategy is full of holes).

You have absolutely no clue of the issues that parents are having to weigh up when making this decision, you seem to think that failure to comply with government plans means that they're not committed to their jobs.

sleeping standing up

I saw quite a few posters who seemed to think that it was entirely fine for the OP to work 12 hours per day because she didn’t have children. Comments along the lines of “think yourself lucky that you only have to work 12 hours a day” (which are really not helpful). There was even one poster who said something along the lines of “what else were you planning to do ? Go out”.

lauriemarlow

OP said that they generally worked 9-5. That’s around a 7 / 7.5 hour day. OP says that she is currently working 10-12 hour days. We don’t know what is happening at the weekends either.

It’s not a couple of extra hours here and there. Over a 6 month furlough period it’s around 2 - 3 months extra work.

I don't really understand how paying parents less will solve the problem - it won't make the work go anywhere? As I said, I asked to cut my hours and so pay and was told no. My boss told me she wanted to be supportive, but I think at least part of it was that if I cut my hours then that would be the end of me working at midnight and at the weekend to make time up, and so they'd save some money but have even more of a problem with work piling up, so I don't think it was all kindness to me.

OP said that they generally worked 9-5. That’s around a 7 / 7.5 hour day. OP says that she is currently working 10-12 hour days. We don’t know what is happening at the weekends either.

That’s not particularly unusual hours though, for someone early in their career, in regular times. I certainly did far more than that in the first 6/7 years of my career.

The pertinent point is that the OP is doing this of her own free will. She won’t table this with her boss for some reason. Who is the only person with any power to actually change things.