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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Parents wfh and the furloughed for childcare

794 replies

baskininjoe · 17/05/2020 16:28

I am childless, currently by choice because I am in my twenties but do plan to have a child in the future at some point.

AIBU to be getting annoyed with the short end of the stick that the childless are getting right now with everything regarding childcare and lockdown.

I have so many colleges who are currently wfh whilst looking after children. I completely sympathise and understand this is hard but I am really starting to get annoyed with them being less productive, and logging less hours for the same pay (no reduction), whilst the rest of us are expected to pick up the slack, and work more hours to make sure tasks still get completed, whilst not being paid anymore for our extra time and effort. I know there is no perfect solution but it really grates on me that they aren't being paid for what they complete which could therefore compensate the rest of us for the extra we are having to do because they are not fully fulfilling their role.

On top of this with the idea of school provisionally going back in June some of these parents have said they will not be sending their DC to school, despite a place being open and available to them, and therefore expect the rest of us to continue to pick up their slack because they can't work as productively whilst looking after their children.

My housemate (shared house) works in a place where many parents have been furloughed for childcare reasons, despite their being lots of work to do, just because they've asked to be. This means that my housemate has been incredibly stressed as the workload is still high but the team is now smaller, whilst many of their colleges are receiving 80% on the taxpayer, despite their actually being work for them to do, all because they complained to their employer that it was too hard working with children and thus asking to be furloughed. This is especially grating as it is taxpayer money that is being used to pay them, despite their actually being a job they could do and be payed for.

I am not at all against the furlough scheme, another of my housemates work in a restaurant and is also on furlough and this is absolutely the right thing as they can not work, despite wanting to, as their place of work is not allowed to open.

However I think:

  1. Some employers and employees are taking the piss by allowing staff to be furloughed/asking to be furloughed despite their actually being a job to do. Which then negatively affects the rest of the teams as the work level remains the same but there are less people to do the work so the remaining people have to work harder with no extra pay.
  1. Employers need to be understanding but also firm with parents that although some productively will be affected by having DC at home, a certain level still needs to be consistently met or they are not doing their job properly and that negatively affects the business and the rest of the team.
  1. Employers need to be especially understanding and grateful to employees still working, who are picking up the slack for those not being as productive because of DC at home/furloughed for childcare reasons despite their still being work. And actually need to consider financially compensating them for the high level of extra work and overtime and/or promise to look at these people first for upcoming promotions as as they have shown serious dedication to the business.
  1. Employers should not be allowing parents to choose not to send DC to school when they can if it continues to affect the parents productivity level.

I understand this is a hard time for everyone, and parents do have it hard with few childcare options for DC, however that is not the problem of their colleagues and they should not be negatively affected by being expected to work far far more for no extra gain. My housemate and I are stressed beyond belief both having to work 10-12 hours every day for what would be a 9-5 office job in order to pick up the slack for colleagues whilst not being paid anymore whilst these colleagues are only completely 4-6 hours a day yet continuing to be paid the same as us. And on top of this are expecting it to continue despite their child being able to go to school soon because they are choosing not to send them.

OP posts:
HeyDuggeesCakeBadge · 18/05/2020 11:14

@chopc you sound like a virtuous ex smoker looking back at toddlerdom with Rose tinted glasses. You say you've been a working parent for 17 years so I'm making the assumption that your kids aren't young? Children are generally quite needy, given they are children so no, we can't be as productive as we usually would as we employ people to do this full time for us in normal times.

LaurieMarlow · 18/05/2020 11:15

So in a completely abnormal situation you think normal working practices should apply?

This is exactly what I don’t get.

The rule book for everything has been torn up.

Yet normal contracted hours should somehow be respected, when everything that supports them has been taken away?

oblada · 18/05/2020 11:17

Marie - how rude!
In answer to your question: Yes and No.
I would expect employers to be flexible and understanding but no I wouldn't expect them to pay full pay if the employee isn't able to fulfill their full contractual obligations. But I wouldnt expect them to sack off the staff either and instead to look at creative options (different working hours, reduced hours, reduced pay etc).
I'm in HR so well aware of the ramifications. I may be more aware of the difficulties faced by small businesses as I work with small and medium businesses who simply couldn't afford to pay full pay for half of the work.

MarieQueenofScots · 18/05/2020 11:19

Yet normal contracted hours should somehow be respected, when everything that supports them has been taken away?

Well quite. I genuinely think some people can't be very insightul.

LaurieMarlow · 18/05/2020 11:20

I'm in HR so well aware of the ramifications

Are you thinking about the long term affect this could have on mothers (and women more generally) in the workplace I wonder?

LaurieMarlow · 18/05/2020 11:20

I genuinely think some people can't be very insightful

This certainly seems to be the case.

WelcomeToTheNorth · 18/05/2020 11:26

I’m an employment lawyer. My experience with HR specialists is that they have next to no understanding of discrimination legislation.

LindaLyndell · 18/05/2020 11:30

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

oblada · 18/05/2020 11:31

Welcome to the North - no it isn't. The Equality Act doesn't require employers to pay for work that isn't being done. It requires the employer to consider reasonable adjustments and I am very much in favour of that. But if ultimately an employee can only do half of their work (productivity or hours) it is not discriminatory to pay them half of their pay.

Quite a lot of entitlement from working parents here.
It has to be give and take - employers should be flexible and employees should be flexible. This may mean a reduction in pay in some cases or working different hours or performing different tasks etc.

oblada · 18/05/2020 11:32

I'm a lawyer too if that helps you...

HeyDuggeesCakeBadge · 18/05/2020 11:35

@oblada you are advocating for unlawfully deducting wages from those parents (and let's face it women) who can't through no fault of their own, work their full contractual hours for a temporary period of time. This would be indirect sex discrimation and employers would need to be able to justify their decisions in a Tribunal.

gonzales27 · 18/05/2020 11:36
  • @baskininjoe*

You say

"once again nowhere in my post am I attacking parents and saying they should work more."

But in your OP you say....

" i am really starting to get annoyed with them being less productive, and logging less hours for the same pay (no reduction), whilst the rest of us are expected to pick up the slack, and work more hours to make sure tasks still get completed, whilst not being paid anymore for our extra time and effort."

I don't think you realise that the parents are picking up the slack if the whole childcare and teaching industry whilst also trying to do their normal full time jobs, effectively doing 2 (or more) full time jobs at once!

I manage a large team and I'm so grateful for those without children on my team who are able to work so hard during consistent hours to keep everything spinning, they are definitely working above and beyond and I can feel their frustrations with the unavailable of the others on their teams, it must be annoying! Yes they are working hard for longer hours, BUT they only have to worry about themselves, they don't have to cook for 3+ people, clean for 3+, worry about the emotional needs and educational needs of 3* individuals!

I feel more for those on my team who are desperately working at their desks from 5am-7am then looking after toddlers from 7am till 5pm, then back at their desks from 5pm till midnight, then spending all weekend tidying/cleaning the carnage and preparing for the next week ahead. The only way to fit it in is to reduce sleep and cut out all personal time for relaxation!

LaurieMarlow · 18/05/2020 11:36

Quite a lot of entitlement from working parents here

HOW is it entitled to say that no, you can’t do two full time functions at the same time?

It has to be give and take

I’m actually getting angry with you now.

Parents working from home are ‘giving’ very considerably. They’ve supported the shut down in childcare to halt the spread of this disease.

That’s at huge detriment to ...

Their children
Their long term career prospects
Their mental and physical health.

Many are at breaking point. And you’re bleating about their need to ‘give’ more Confused

HeyDuggeesCakeBadge · 18/05/2020 11:37

And most parents are working flexibly, indeed a lot of people on this thread are working before their kids wake up, into the night and weekends but will not be as available through the day as they have children to care for.

NameChangedToProtect1 · 18/05/2020 11:37

The OP is working soooooo hard that they have time to insult working parents juggling care,education and work... well done for being so efficient!

LaurieMarlow · 18/05/2020 11:38

I don't think you realise that the parents are picking up the slack if the whole childcare and teaching industry

This. Thank you for expressing that so well.

Mekw · 18/05/2020 11:40

@burritofan - absolutely hit nail on head 👏👏👏👏👏

Livingoncake · 18/05/2020 11:42

OP, are you ever going to tell us what you think working parents should do with their children all day so that their all-important productivity can take centre stage?

Oh, and the fact that you want to financially penalise parents - thereby putting innocent children at a financial disadvantage and possibly into poverty - is utterly despicable and shows that you have no empathy at all for those trying to keep their jobs while looking after their children 24/7. Repeatedly saying "I fully empathise" does not mean that you actually do.

oblada · 18/05/2020 11:43

Heyduggee - not at all. I'm advocating coming up with creative solutions between employer and employees. If an employee (male or female) has childcare responsibilities to the extent that they cannot work their full hours (productivity or hours) then they can take unpaid leave (statutory right) or discuss with the employer a more suitable arrangement such as different hours, reduced hours (reduced pay), different duties.
All quite fair. I can't fathom why anyone would expect to be paid full pay for not doing their full duties. If I couldn't do my full duties (because of childcare) or if my husband couldn't, then we would discuss those options with our employers. I'm not talking about being slightly less productive of course but of what the OP refers to ie someone doing half a day's work (productivity or hours).

Laurie - it is entitled to expect full pay if you cannot deliver close to full hours/work. Nobody is expecting you to do more. I'm not bleating about giving more. Just about not expecting to be paid in full if you cannot do the work in full. That's all. A balance has to be struck and it will be different for everyone.

joanofparc · 18/05/2020 11:43

It has to be give and take - employers should be flexible and employees should be flexible. This may mean a reduction in pay in some cases or working different hours or performing different tasks etc.

Actually I don't know why we're getting so wound up by opinions like these. This pp doesn't actually have the power to make that happen.

LaurieMarlow · 18/05/2020 11:44

This pp doesn't actually have the power to make that happen.

Fair point

SleepingStandingUp · 18/05/2020 11:45

Half of DH's team have been furloughed, he's picking up the extra work. I have a child who can't go back yet due to shielding who I'm "home schooling" and 5 month old twins. DH is working full time upstairs. What's your point op?

oblada · 18/05/2020 11:46

Joan - true. Although it is my professional advice to many small to medium employers currently. So I kinda do... in my small way :)

joanofparc · 18/05/2020 11:49

My employer who is taking wellness very seriously during lockdown has agreed a temporary reduction in targets for those really struggling, without a reduction in pay. They recognise that to heap financial stress on people who are already extremely stressed is counter productive. No one working to a full target resents that, everyone is pulling together. Those on reduced targets are still pulling their tripe out.

Your employment environment doesn't sound particularly healthy OP.

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