Dr Judy Mikovits

[Firecarrier]

AIBU to find this interesting?

YABU: She doesn't know what she's talking about

YANBU: It is deeply concerning

OP, there are a few episodes with doctors, scientists and epidemiologists in the following channels that agree that virus fatality rate is low and lockdown needs to end and should have never lasted as long as it has and needs to end ASAP:
m.youtube.com/watch?v=VK0Wtjh3HVA

Well, Michael Levitt isn't an epidemiologist for starters.

I don't know if you have John Ioannides in your clips because I have a life, but he's a contrarian who has been discredited many times.

Sweden's death rate per 1000 is edging towards being the highest in Europe, so I wouldn't give much credence to the epidemiologist leading their tactics - unless you're of the 'they would have died anyway' school of thought.

And even if COVID 19 'only' hastened the death of someone who already had a poor prognosis (like your leukaemia patient), that person is still a human being with a family and loved ones, whose life has value.

Swedens death rate is on the decline and they are gaining herd immunity much faster. They are allowing the virus to work its way through the population. Every country will have a similar death eats once the virus has worked its way through the population.

Evidence of the point you just made. Peer reviewed, please. And not on YouTube.

Otherwise I'm just going to class you as someone who wants to belieeeeeeeve.

Fox News. Oxymoron.

It's a ploy by the big 5-- Google, Microsoft, Amazon, Youtube, Fb - to take attention away from the way THEY control everything in the world today. Or at least all the information.

@EdwinaMay

Genuinely not sure if you're joking.

Edwina, Google (or Alphabet) own Youtube and lots of other things. Anyway, aren't the biggies Amazon, Apple (though they seem to be championing privacy as a selling point given they make their money from hardware and content rather than advertising), Facebook, Microsoft (content again) Netflix (content again), Google with Youtube and Walkers crisps (shhh, it's a secret)?

I can't believe I carry on commenting but Jane, 'Swedens death rate is on the decline and they are gaining herd immunity much faster.'

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/21/just-7-per-cent-of-stockholm-had-covid-19-antibodies-by-end-of-april-study-sweden-coronavirus

so if 60% is an estimate of COVID's herd immunity threshold (it's more complicated but isn't everything?),

www.sciencefocus.com/news/coronavirus-can-herd-immunity-protect-us-from-covid-19/

how long until Sweden gains herd immunity?

Zilla
Even if we did not gain immunity and had it over and over again, the virus would more likely mutate to something less lethal. This virus has a low fatality rate. There are a lot of factors to consider as there are a lot of unknowns and assumptions, but I agree with the opinions of these doctors, scientists and epidemiologists that this virus has a Low fatality rate, similar to a severe influenza.
If you disagree with Sweden's herd immunity approach, what do you think the approach should be? Lockdown until we receive some vaccine that might not even work? We have a flu vaccine every year and it doesn't always work.
The science is herd immunity.
There is no science behind a lockdown.

The flu vaccine does work.

Effacy may vary each year depending in the prevalent strains and whether the content of the vaccine is right but it does work.

The Oxford team have stated they will know by July whether their vaccine works and if it does then potentially it will be ready to roll out from September. I'd rather listen to them, the actual scientists working on it, than someone on YouTube.

Kkkslider
These people being interviewed on YouTube are doctors, scientists and epidemiologists. They have a different opinion on the lockdown and the approach that should be taken. I choose to listen to these professionals. You choose to listen to the ones that have a different approach. Your only argument against them is that they are being broadcast on the YouTube channel? You haven't even watched or listened, have not provided one argument as to what you specifically disagree with that they have stated. That's that general response on this thread though it seems..

Kkslider
to add, as I, along with these doctors, scientists and epidemiologists believe that the death rate is similar to a severe influenza, I don't think we should wait for a vaccine to lift lockdown. The vaccine doesn't matter, because if we don't lock the country down for the flu why for COVID? When the vaccine comes out you can choose to take it, but many people will not and that's the reality of the situation. And anyone can speculate and claim that the vaccine will be rolled out in Sept and be effective, but speculation and reality are two different things.

Jane, I disagreed with your statement that Sweden are gaining herd immunity at a faster rate given they seem, at best, to have 7% which is barely a tenth of a possible herd-immunity threshold of 60%, even presuming that immunity arises and is maintained.

Regarding 'the virus would more likely mutate to something less lethal', it's certainly a possibility, as is maintaining its current 'lethality' and increasing its lethality. To say 'more likely' is pure speculation.

To avoid a further iteration, there's some opinions that this is what may have happened with the four? long-standing human corona viruses but this is, as far as I'm aware, again speculation though happy to be proven wrong.

Jane the mortality rate is higher than for flu, and in vulnerable groups is much higher than for flu. The reason for lockdown is simple: it's to prevent a country's health service being overwhelmed because that will lead to death rates far higher than they need to be. Mass graves would be feature. The Nightingale hospitals would be full, and woefully understaffed. The number of health service staff dying would multiply, because the amount of virus exposure seems to be a factor in the severity of a case. You seem to be OK with all that happening, as do your pet epidemiologists. I would suggest that you, and they, are lacking in empathy and conscience.

Lockdown is economically inconvenient, but perhaps this is an opportunity for us to examine our economics and come to the conclusion that the capitalist model of growth at all costs is unsustainable and needs to change.

Pointythings
The death rate is much higher in vulnerable, usually older groups due to the way they record COVID deaths. It is usually people that would have died anyway of their underlying health conditions. Someone dies due to complications from Alzeimers and they are positive for COVID, this is recorded as a COVID death. Doctors all around the world attest to this way of reporting.
We are not here for the hospitals, the hospitals are there to serve the people. Most of the hospitals are empty, empty of COVID patients as well as patients suffering other diseases. Is that a positive for you?
People die everyday. It's sad. Most of the people that have died "of" COVID died directly of something else.

Pointythings
The lockdown is not just economically inconvenient. It you believe that, you really don't understand the gravity of the situation. Peoples cancer treatments are stalled. Diagnostic scans stopped. Depression and suicide escalating, child abuse. People losing their livelihoods, retirements, homes, university savings for their children. Not to mention the effects of lockdown on developing countries. The fact that you think this is all just economically " inconvenient " says everything I need to know about you!

people that would have died anyway of their underlying health conditions

We'll all die anyway. Suggesting that people dying days or weeks or months before their time doesn't matter because they would have died anyway is an unconscionable position to take.

Jane the reason hospitals are empty is that people have been discharged early to make way for COVID patients. I know this, because I work for the NHS. I have been part of reconfiguring our community nursing services to support people discharged from hospital who would otherwise have remained in a bed. These people have been frailer and more ill than they would have been had they stayed until their health was optimal for discharge.

And the reason the freed-up beds have not been filled to bursting with COVID patients is people adhering to lockdown. You're one of those people who would bleat' well, but the Millennium Bug didn't happen'. And that was because thousands of programmers worked their arses off to prevent it. Same thing here - thousands of health workers and staff behind the scene have worked their arses off to prevent the health service from going under.

Your argument of 'well, they would have died anyway' marks you out as one of the heartless and callous brigade. A friend of mine has a DD with Type 1 Diabetes. This puts her at heightened risk of dying of COVID if she catches it. The DD is 11. Is her life expendable?

Cancer treatment is happening, by the way. A friend of mine is having her treatment as scheduled, socially distanced. Honestly, I don't know where to start with people like you.

I had a diagnostic scan yesterday, ultrasound and xray are both still running. DS has an outpatient appointment next week for a routine matter.

Jane,

' Someone dies due to complications from Alzeimers and they are positive for COVID, this is recorded as a COVID death. Doctors all around the world attest to this way of reporting.'

I can only speak for the UK but I don't think you understand how COVID kills people nor, I suspect, how death certificates work. I don't think I'll comment further on this thread.

except to say, KKSlider, I hope things go well.

Everything will go fine, I'm sure. Need a minor op to remove something that I knew was going to need removing anyway and then that should sort things out.

Haven't RTFT.
People do die from 'just' covid too. My BIL for instance. I am so over people blithely weighing in with "Aw, sorry to hear that. What was the underlying condition, then?" as if they're trying to prove a point. DP lost his DB for goodness sake.