Classroom Lessons via Zoom

[jjx111]

AIBU to expect the teachers at my daughter’s rs primary school to offer at least some lessons via Zoom? The feedback I have been given is that that they aren’t offering it due to a) safeguarding issues, and b) it would add to the teachers workload. Well, surely if we parents consent for our child to sign in for these lessons then no safeguarding issue. Plus, at present, we parents are doing at least 60% of the teachers work for them via homeschooling. (I appreciate that they are setting work for the children, but this is part of the planning they would do anyway).

Changeofname79

Out of curiosity, could you outline what a 'normal' lesson consists of and how this can be transferred to Zoom. The actual 'lecturing and explaining' part of teacher last no more than 10 minutes.

Seriously, just curious as to how a lesson can be delivered remotely to over 30 kids with varying needs on one 40 min Zoom call.

Anyone else who wants to suggest ideas are more than welcome as some people seem
to have all the answers.

I don't think Zoom is the be all and end all but it would help parents feel less responsible for the child's education and therefore less stressed/ guilty

Rather than a pointless make work thing for children and teachers that has no evidence for working as a teaching method - it's nothing like teaching a primary school class and knowing that video meetings have lots of evidence for being more stressful for people. Why not simply work on some classes for the parents if they have guilt?

I don't understand how it is giving the teachers more work, they would normally be delivering face to face lessons at these times

Even as a person who's used to delivering presentations, not classes, doing it remotely over video requires different skills and preparation compared to delivering it in person - A talking head is completely different and the totally different feedback options.

I cannot possibly imagine how you would deliver a lesson you'd planned for a class room situation remotely, what would you do for all the bits where you planned kids to talk things through with their partners, expect them to work out how to do break out rooms and discuss it themselves?

The people who think that classroom learning is like a lecture that can just be moved to a talking head on a video amazes it, they're completely different things, lectures are shit ways to learn for everyone, even more so for the younger kids, and the less motivated kids.

@Saoirse7 sorry badly worded, of course it can't be normal lessons over zoom, it's just a good alternative during these times rather than emailing a worksheet. The idea is that the teacher does a 10 minute intro to explain the lesson then for the remaining 40 mins is available for people to ask questions as they would in class. It's in no way perfect but better than sending a worksheet and relying on parents to explain if the kids don't understand (esp as many parents are still working full time).

I apologise as didn't mean to seem flippant, I am not a teacher and would not be able to even try but it seems to work well. The work is set via google classroom for the zoom and non zoom lessons, the children submit completed work via classroom then it is returned marked/with comment. Some lessons are better than others but my eldest said their maths lessons are really good and he feels they get more done as there are less distractions (he is fairly academic so I understand its harder for those like my DS2 who has additional needs). DS2 enjoys the social aspect of the zoom lessons as he needs that interaction. He has a processing problem so having a teacher introduce the task helps him massively as it takes him so long to read and decipher the task on his own.

We are getting an email for any lessons our DCs miss (DS had his school guitar lesson via zoom and teacher didnt realise so I had an email same day to say he'd missed the work)

@sirfredfredgeorge you are completely right, it isnt and can't be the same but surely it is better than emailing a worksheet over and expecting the DCs to complete with no input. I know of many schools my friends DCs are at doing this and parents are finding it really hard to facilitate whilst also working full time and with multiple kids of different ages.

I didn't actually say it was the same, I said the teachers would be delivering something during these times normally.

So if we want schools to remain shut through the pandemic what is the solution? Not educate any of the children for fear that some won't engage? Leave it all to parents - many of whom are also trying to work? And for that matter have no idea how to explain what a subordinate clause is (one of DS's worksheets this week).

Or a bit of remote teaching, somehow? Zoom and teams are being suggested because that's what we're using at work. If SLT suggest something (ideally that works in a web browser to be device independent) then we'll use it.

This solution may have to last 1-2 years unless we just want those years to be the unions battling government over schools opening for all that time and no-one to be taught.

I'd rather DS stayed home and safe, but a year or two of revision from worksheets and no new teaching is not a price to pay for that. I'm not an education specialist, and struggle with literacy activities, and am working on top of keeping the house running. DS needs teaching support.

And obviously for those teachers that are doing teaching remotely, this is not aimed at you. This is my DS's school.

Another teacher bashing thread.... great.

For what it's worth here is what I'm doing as a secondary teacher in a not affluent area.

Each week we are providing each year group two live lessons, via google meet. This means you can only get access if you have a school email address. (Anyone else is denied entry by the supporting teacher as entry has to be requested.) We combine classes so all have more than one staff member on at a time (sometimes there are up to four of us). Safefuarding. Pupils have cameras off and mics off. Teachers have cameras off. All lessons are recorded for safeguarding and so pupils who cannot get on live due to their circumstances can watch later. We invite responses during the lesson via the chat function. And if students are invited and want to they can talk via their mics when given permission. We can remove any student not complying with the rules at any time. At the end of the lesson they complete an online quiz to check their understanding and we have a short opportunity to revisit things if we need to. (We can clearly see who got which questions right.)

After the lesson the students are expected to complete the work on the google classroom within 7 days. Supporting powerpoints are also on the google classroom for anyone who cannot get onto the live lesson, so they can still compete the work. I then mark and comment on this work as it comes in.

We are providing paper copies of the work for any student who finds it easier to work on paper. (They have to make an appointment to collect it from the resources hub at school, similarly if they don't have stationary, books etc. they can also go and collect what they need. There are not many that do this but it is there for the students who have very little.)

We are teaching the normal curriculum, just slightly less at a time.

Most students are getting at least two live lessons a day with work provided for other times. Yr 10 are getting three a day.

Completion of the work and attendance to online lessons gets you positive class points. The ones with the most at the end of the week are celebrated and are sent a small recognition in the post.

We do an online tutor time each week where students can come with any worries anything they want to share. Next week we have a quiz planned and some students are going to play the piano or recite a poem (their suggestion and they are Yr 7!).

In addition I have the usually meetings, five this week. Two about arrangements for when Yr 10 come back in after half term.

This is taking a massive amount of time, we are planning lessons from scratch as what we have doesn't suit online teaching. And the online marking is significantly more time consuming than books.

Oh and I work a .6 contract so am working well over my usual hours. I have my 9 yr old and 11 yr old at home too.

Please don't tell me it can't be done and isn't being done. In some places it is and is very successful. In my area we are the only school doing this and as far as I am concerned there is no excuse. Some of the work being provided by other schools is quite frankly embarrassing. They need to step up.

@changeofname79 that a lovely outline of how it works for your kids. Thanks.

Someone asked how it would mean more work than usual, just want to help with that. If our school tried the same setup described above, we need to do our usual planning first, adapting to the new format would probably take a little longer. Then, I know that a significant proportion wouldnt be able to attend. So we'd still need to provide other work for these pupils and provide as much contact and feedback as we can. Plus, there's our work with vulnerable children, meaning one day out of this per week. Plus, prepping for the return of y1, R and 6. I can see it adding up so quickly.

@sultanarama I definitely agree with you on the one size doesn't fit all approach. Our school had stressed to parents that the most important thing is children's mental health and wellbeing. We might pay for it when we return, as it will be extremely hard to get the children who've not been doing much academic learning to fill the gaps, but we are trained for that and good at that, and I am expecting to work even longer hours than normal next year. I'm prepared to do that because I know that the extra work then can make an impact (I'm not convinced that me doing extra work now will do that)

Just to be clear, not many people enjoy using Zoom (or similar), not many people’s skills translate well into it, it’s always challenging to adapt it to situations that we’re used to doing face to face.

But vast sectors of the economy are using them right now because they have a job to do, there are consequences to not delivering it to a high standard and these kind of platforms, flawed as they are, are the best means we have of doing that.

I am glad my DCs school are providing more for them, DS1 is Y9 and DS2 Y7 so I dont suppose they will be back till September. I think Y10s will be provided for in the way of adjustments to ensure they are not penalised but I suspect Y9s will be the year who truly suffer as will be expected to be back to normal by exam time in spite of them missing over a term of learning at some schools (other than the odd worksheet)

I did draw the line at our school emailing parents with the DCs revision guides ready for the end of year exams they would be taking remotely. There is no way I would be asking my kids to revise after doing a full day sat on a laptop,also no way exam conditions could be monitored. So many other reasons why it wouldnt be a fair playing field. They soon scrapped the idea after many complaints.

I've been paying for DCs to attend some Zoom lessons with a company called Outschool.
A couple of things I've noticed:
Group sizes are kept very small
Classroom discipline is difficult--some teachers are better at this than others.
Communicating with the children and keeping their attention is more difficult.
Getting them to do stuff in class is kind of awkward. Classes where kids have to draw and label a castle or write a paragraph are a brave choice for the teachers as they have no way of checking the kids are engaged with/understand the work as they do it.
The issue of time spent listening to the teacher v time spent interacting is tricky and probably different to what you'd do in a normal classroom.
We've had a couple of lessons where the teachers are really nailing it, they're obviously at home with the medium and have had a lot of practice with it.
We've also had some frustrating lessons where the technology is clearly getting in the way.
It's not a substitute for classroom teaching and I think it would be almost impossible to manage with a normal class size.

@June2008

You sound very similar to me - right down to the part time hours and ages of our kids. Weird!
Anyway I’m setting a mixture of live and online lessons, marking work from every lesson and homework and, in my opinion the most important, registering my form on a google meet every morning.

What I would like for my own kids is a few prerecorded videos explaining basic mathematical and literacy concepts. I teach A-Level, I have no idea what a bloody fronted adverbial is. My school is sending through the odd video of teachers reading stories but that is something I can do. It would be lovely to show a 5 min video and then give them the worksheet.

@qweryuiop I am guessing you are being sarcastic there (I am hoping you weren't though). Surely on here the idea is to share our experiences. In no way am I suggesting it is perfect or will work for everyone but I do think there needs to be more on offer than what is being provided from many settings. In no way are my DCs lessons same as face to face but they are a good compromise. I am sorry if I offended you, I really wasnt being shitty about it or assuming that teachers are sat on their arses doing nothing.

I am being paid full time from my employer (NHS) which I am extremely grateful for however my working day is generally a lot longer than normal as we have to adapt to different ways of working and dealing with having kids at home all day. I think that's the case for many right now.

@June2008 that sounds good, and week thought though - thanks. I'm hoping that 2 or 3 lessons a day for students means your SLT have realised this is harder on all parties, and you are also teaching fewer classes.

@Generallybewildered yes I forgot to mention a few teachers are setting work by doing a video and sharing it (PE, Dance, Drama). The children are being asked to send videos back if they can.

Due to teacher shortages and departures, I have ten classes that I am responsible for setting work for, keeping in touch with and providing feedback for. That's well over 200 students. And that isn't all of my own students, as I share some groups, but I still want to be available for them, so we can up that figure to nearly 300.

Most of my day is taken up communicating with students, offering support and directing them towards good websites, or yourtube videos. If any student needs more help than this, I respond by calling them, and talk them through the work they are struggling with. This can take between 5 - 20 minutes for each student. These parts of my day where I am actually helping students with maths are absolutely my favourite.

If students or parents don't communicate with me or don't ask me for help, then no, they are not getting very much from me. They could well be on here complaining about the provision they are getting. Do you think, with those numbers, this means I am not doing much work? Do you think I have time to do zoom classes and still be available to offer support to the ones who don't have PC access, considering that's a good half of my students (more of the top set students have access to computers, so it would be the ones who needed support the most, who got the least).

On top of that, I also have to attend school as part of the keyworker rota, do online training courses, re-organise schemes of work, grade students for GCSEs, create resources for next year. Oh, and support my own two primary aged kids. As always, they end up being an after thought.

If and when I do end up going back in to school, the provision for everyone but year 10 will be even worse, as instead of being available to help out all day, I will no doubt have to provide support to the still well over a hundred students who will not yet be in school but will now have to squeeze it in after school and at the weekend. And people will probably still be complaining about how crap the provision is. At the same time, I really hope that the students who are engaging with me more fully will have a completely different perspective.

We had a serious staff shortage in my subject before this started. We were already having to set work for cover teachers on top of our own jobs. Now we are having to cover those students as well as our own. When people say, "If teachers are not prepared to work, they need to hand their notice in," I wonder if they realise how few of us are left already.

@MinesAPintOfTea

I think this is part of the reason that schools are going back as an early stage of releasing Lockdown and why I think it's unlikely that many schools won't be mostly back in September. I'm my opinion, there isn't an efficient way to teach the whole country's children (and provide effective childcare) without schools being physically open.

Also, do remember that you're a functional adult without knowing what a fronted adverbial is. So while they might be useful to help your child pass Sats, they won't actually get him further in life. I bet you're actually teaching him a whole bunch of life skills, so go easy in yourself if you can't help with schoolwork.

Ps. Thanks for your "not all teachers" disclaimer. It actually really helps

@Changeofname79 I wasn't being sarcastic! It was interesting to read as a teacher who was wondering how it would work!

I think that those of you who are teachers need to stop rising to this shit.
Let those parents who agree with OP (entitled nanas generally) have a bit of "I know, isnt it awful session" and then get bored and go away.

Changeofname79

Yes this sounds good in theory but please remember, in any class there will be at least 3 groups of ability, all requiring different levels of help. Not all work is differentiated by difficulty, sometimes they require different explanations or levels of support entirely. In a class situation this can be easily and discreetly controlled, not so on Zoom. It then ends up that children who do have needs or are in lower groups are identified and will stand out to other kids. Are teachers then expected to conduct 3 separate lessons?

This is achievable on Google Classroom, I can filter who receives what work and I dictate short voice notes along side this explaining how to complete the work. Kids can then message me through any queries.

Zoom means every single child has to be able to log on and participate at the exact same time. It may be suitable for business meetings or possible senior school kids with small classes buy it is absolutely unsuitable for Primary. IMO

@qweryuiop sorry. I was really trying to word it in a way not to offend anyone or sound as if I was suggesting anyone can do it then was worried I had done the opposite. We have been massively impressed with the school and the support offered but I am not so naive I believe it is perfect or possible everywhere.

I do think some schools have been pretty slack though, my nephew is 7 and they were sent one pack of work via email and it was all on non writable PDFs so only possible to do if you had a printer. It took the school a week to amend it. I dont think that is good enough for any school.

I heard on the news about a group of children doing a zoom lesson and a hacker got in and they then witnessed child abuse so yes if that's what you want carry on but I can't see many teachers wanting to be involved in that. If many teachers are wanting to get involved with that then we have a big problem.

@ehct
That's a pretty horrible attitude.

I live abroad and my children go to the regular local school. We live in an expensive area, but many people are not well off. There are many migrant families who have English as a second language and it’s not uncommon for three generations of a family to live in the one house and for both parents to work. During lockdown our school has provided one or two zoom calls a week for each class. Children with additional needs have also been provided with additional zoom time as required.

Many families, including my own, didn’t have devices for zoom calls at the start of lockdown, but the school has taken devices out of the classrooms to give to these children and the government has provided some families with devices and an internet connections as well. Several children are clearly using phones to access zoom classes too.

I have 3 primary school aged children and they each have zoom calls, but the teachers stagger the calls across the day so that even with just one laptop it is possible for the kids to do the calls, although it’s optional to attend.

The zoom calls have been a wonderful chance for the children to see their teachers and friends and are the highlight of their week. They are not used to provide formal lessons, but are an opportunity for the children to share what they have been doing and play fun games. For example my year 1 child had a scavenger hunt the other day and had to collect items that started with a particular letter and show them to the class.

Many of the teachers at the school also have young children at home, yet they manage 1-2 zoom calls a week as well as daily and weekly emails. The children are also provided with a wide variety of optional activities and the teachers provide feedback via google classroom.

My children get very little support with their learning because their dad and I are working from home in demanding roles and aren’t available to help them, but their teachers are there for them.

I don’t really understand all the angst regarding safeguarding. Here parents are emailed the details for the call and the teacher controls the meetings. We’ve had no safety concerns.

Our school is just like a regular community school in the UK, so I don’t understand why UK schools can’t provide a similar system. We’ve even had zoom calls just for parents to discuss with the teacher any issues we’re having and get help. Plus I can email the teacher and have even talked to them on the phone.

I find it strange the average UK school can’t do more. The teacher’s manage all this while also being in at school to teach kids that do have to go in and our teachers are also not well paid.