To be concerned at the number of people on MN second guessing doctors?

[Wolfgirrl]

Every day I read a new thread where the poster is canvassing opinion on whether to reject medical advice.

The most common seem to be wanting to refuse a caesarean/induction and not wanting to top up fail to thrive babies with formula.

I totally agree that everyone has the right to refuse medical treatment etc, but when it relates to a baby you're not just putting yourself at risk. It just seems selfish to me? Interested to hear other's opinions.

I took my unwell baby to gp who told me she just had a viral infection and not to worry. Mothers instinct told me it was more than that so I took her to a+e. She had meningitis. So no doctors aren't always right.

Also we are constantly told how little training most HCPs have on breastfeeding and we shouldn't expect better. Is it any wonder we don't blindly trust them?

Your responses are really quite odd, OP. And loaded with all the very ideas that undermine breastfeeding. All of which, btw, are unsupported by the very thing youre purporting to support - medical advice.

Funny. It's unusual to hear them all loaded in one thread all together. And you're selectively ignoring the answers you're given.

@ScrimpshawTheSecond

'Undermining breastfeeding'

How?

That's ridiculous emotional language that sort of proves my point really.

Women need support and information to help them make the choice that is right for them.

If you have a ftt baby you should be offered a consultation with a pediatrician as there could be many reasons for this condition and it needs attention.

Not sure how I've proved your point as I'm not sure what your point is. Several posters have said that a ftt baby needs pediatrician consultation and checks. You seem to be suggesting that ftt is something to do with how the baby is fed and as has been said this is not necessarily the case.

I agree with you, OP

@ScrimpshawTheSecond

Sigh I was talking about posters who specifically say medical professionals have advised a top up, but they dont want to.

It's not my own personal hunch.

@Aridane

I think you're the first on this thread lol! Votes are still in my favour though.

It is a good think if a person is intelligent enough to research their conditions or care themselves and question, make suggestions and ask for second opinions.
Sometimes a doctor may not be up to date with the latest methods or research.
Two well respected doctors could also differ in how they would treat a certain condition.
It is important to get what is right for the individual.

I was talking about posters who specifically say medical professionals have advised a top up, but they dont want to

If medical professionals have diagnosed ftt and advised a top up, the medical professionals are wrong.

Top up and formula is often used as a band aid for any and all issues in a bf baby.

If that baby has a serious underlying condition, topping up may delay paed referral and diagnosis.

There are many posts i see on here in exactly the same position I was - bf baby not gaining according to charts, but otherwise healthy. But where I got a paed referral, they are being advised to top up, or put on extreme regimens of feeding, expressing, topping up...

Fwiw i didn’t want to top up as bf was going really well, i didn’t want to risk that as topping up can often be the start of a gradual slide into formula, especially with a baby like mine.

Health professionals can be wrong. In fact they often are with regard to bf. Advising topping up with no other investigations? That’s not dealing with the reason the child supposedly needs topping up.

So yes, people are right to question and seek other opinions. I started forums and kellymom after the answer to every bf problem or question, right from birth, was met with “try formula”.

They had to cancel a Swedish study into letting pregnancies progress past term as it led to a higher stillbirth rate:

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/oct/28/post-term-pregnancy-research-cancelled-babies-die-sweden

The stillbirth risk is small, but the outcome is catastrophic if it does happen.

@bluebluezoo

Fwiw i didn’t want to top up as bf was going really well, i didn’t want to risk that as topping up can often be the start of a gradual slide into formula, especially with a baby like mine.

With respect, how could it be going well if your baby wasnt growing properly?

As for the 'slide into formula' you make it sound like a 'slide into Smirnoff ice' or something 🤣🤣

May I ask if your baby caught up eventually?

@AlexTheLittleCat

This is what I dont get. That is the very, very worst outcome. I agreed to induction without hesitation to avoid that risk. I had one of those 'bad' inductions, it took days, ended with forceps etc. But it was worth every second to keep my baby safe.

Someone has to be that awful statistic, why even take the risk?

In the Netherlands they have a kraamverzorger . To me this sounds amazing and I imagine would be invaluable support .

I think they help with looking after baby and mum in the first two weeks, and help with establishing breastfeeding? Tbh it would be a lot easier to establish feeding if you did have support - not just feeding support but time to rest too. I do think maternal care is very important, not just centred on feeding.

This is what I dont get. That is the very, very worst outcome. I agreed to induction without hesitation to avoid that risk. I had one of those 'bad' inductions, it took days, ended with forceps etc. But it was worth every second to keep my baby safe.

Someone has to be that awful statistic, why even take the risk?

I was very nearly that statistic, so I wouldn't take the risk. My induction for the baby being in distress turned into horror movie c-section and baby nearly didn't make it. I'm very lucky they did. Next time I picked an elective c-section, as I didn't want a VBAC as it would have a 25% risk of emergency again. Wasn't having any more children so I didn't have the risk of further c-sections (they are riskier the more you have) or risk of uterine rupture with a future VBAC (riskier if you have had more than one c-section). The risk with an elective after an emergency is more on the mother than the child, the consultant told me that having an elective c-section at 39 weeks reduced the stillbirth risk. I spent a lot of time thinking about it and did what worked for me, someone else would choose differently.

Obviously straight forward births without interventions are the safest, sometimes that isn't possible.

As for breastfeeding, it doesn't work for everyone. I struggled every time, got all the help from midwives/HVs/volunteers etc, always had to top with formula as they failed to thrive (did not regain birth weight in first ten days post-birth). I carried on breastfeeding alongside formula and it worked for us.

In the Netherlands they have a kraamverzorger . To me this sounds amazing and I imagine would be invaluable support .

I would have loved a kraamverzorger too!

With respect, how could it be going well if your baby wasnt growing properly

She was absolutely growing properly. According to child experts and paeds. Bloods, measurements all fine.

You’re defining “growing properly” by the lines on a growth chart. The line is a best fit average- most children will roughly follow a line. But some perfectly healthy children won’t. Some put on weight then grow into it, others grow then their weight catches up.

She was growing perfectly normally for her. Just because she didn’t follow a line on a chart does not mean she was not growing properly.

The referral to paeds and the “ftt” diagnosis was purely based on the numbers on a scale and the charts based on the averages of a cohort (and iirc it’s a very small cohort of other babies). It was alway quite clear there is absolutely nothing wrong with her.

The paed actually asked me if the referral was because I was worried or the GP. I said it was the GP- the reply was she’s perfectly healthy as are a lot of these bf babies, gp’s and hv just don’t see enough bf babies to know “normal”.

@bluebluezoo

So she wasn't failing to thrive then and your posts was irrelevant

Just because she didn’t follow a line on a chart does not mean she was not growing properly.

So what does then?

*@bluebluezoo

So she wasn't failing to thrive then and your posts was irrelevant hm*

You were the one who can diagnose (or not, apparently) ftt over a forum.

What makes me any different, when a gp tells me my baby is ftt, and all the other parents on here whose babies are “ftt” and have been told to top up.

The relevance is the GP was wrong. Only a paed can diagnose true ftt. Not you, not an internet forum.

I explained the centiles in my previous post. Averages, not definitive growth markers for every individual child.

But you didn't even want to try a bottle in case it helped? Is she still small?

But why would @bluebluezoo try a bottle if that’s not the issue?
That would be like someone telling a mum who is formula feeding that their child isn’t thriving because they are using formula... it’s more than centiles .
However our health system is poor and it’s up to women to seek further guidance.

Why are you so keen to disregard any one else’s POV?
You sound so deeply unhappy, to not understand this.

Why should I try formula? Just so she can gain weight to fit a formula fed norm?

It’s been shown that average weights for babies are likely to be too high as it’s based on formula research.

Especially when bf was assessed as going fine by my excellent HV- who also advised not to give formula as it can mask genuine problems.

Define “small”? 6ft? 4ft? Small compared to what?

@bluebluezoo 100% this - I was told my first child was too ‘big’ I formula fed him too much. Nothing to do with the fact his dad is a giant, he’s a big sting bean now.

My other child ebf, when he was ill the drs and hv were happier for me to bottle feed, wanted me to do so I was against this , very keen to bf. It worked out fine again.

My point being one dr will say one thing, one another . So it’s vital women arm themselves with information from all sources so that they can do what’s right for them.

@bluebluezoo to see if she gains weight? Some people have low quality breastmilk. Would you, as an adult, rather be undersized but bf years ago or normal sized with some formula thrown in?