To be concerned at the number of people on MN second guessing doctors?

[Wolfgirrl]

Every day I read a new thread where the poster is canvassing opinion on whether to reject medical advice.

The most common seem to be wanting to refuse a caesarean/induction and not wanting to top up fail to thrive babies with formula.

I totally agree that everyone has the right to refuse medical treatment etc, but when it relates to a baby you're not just putting yourself at risk. It just seems selfish to me? Interested to hear other's opinions.

@Booboostwo

If that's what you want to believe it is one of the most common examples of what I'm talking about on here, hence why it was brought up. But it wasn't me that opened that can of worms if you read the thread.

Can you all please tell me about this mythical agenda rather than just alluding to it?

If you look on MN there are lots of fail to thrive posts, most from what I have seen including ebf babies whose mums dont want to give them formula

And a lot of the time, “failure to thrive” is a lack breastfeeding knowledge within the medical profession.

If a baby is truly ftt, it should be a straight referral to paeds. No pissing around with lactation consultants, topping up with formula, expressing, or anything else.

Starvation and dehydration are pretty easy to see to the experienced eye. I had a fab HV who taught me to look at the whole baby- even though she was feeding all the time, and was not gaining “enough” weight by the charts, she was mobile, meeting milestones, happy, smiley, crying, pooing, napping well in between feeds.

Like i said I was actually told not to give formula before seeing the paed, as that can boost weight and mask any underlying genetic or metabolic conditions.

There is absolutely no way to know if a baby is ftt on an internet forum. If you are coming across “loads” then maybe your understanding of ftt is incorrect. If someone is on here asking about a ftt baby you should be sending them in the direction if a medic, not telling them to give formula.

I have never seen a ftt post on here. Normal bf issues, but never one i think the baby needs hospitalisation.

@bluebluezoo

If you search fail to thrive on MN you will see what I mean.

From what I have read (so anecdotal, could be wrong!) tiny babies generally turn into tiny adults.

I absolutely agree that most of the time they're just genetically small but totally healthy.

But I dont get why the parents dont just try formula to see if it makes a difference? At the end of the day, if your child grows up to be very short he/she wont thank you for ebf them if formula could have made a difference.

That's just where my mind is coming from. This is not a bf bashing thread but it is the topic that has been most picked up on in the replies, hence why I am commenting on it more. Like I said, I breastfed my daughter.

A friend was told to relax at home by her midwife and have a sleep to ease her splitting headache. Her yellow eyes were dismissed. Their partner took them straight to hospital after the midwife left, the hospital were horrified and took them for an emergency C-section and both mother and baby nearly died due to HELLP.

I was given antihistamines on the maternity ward when I was a couple of weeks off my due date and reassured I was safe to take them. However I am one of these 'people apparently full of my own self importance who knows better than doctors' and I read the instruction leaflet. Lucky I did considering it said not safe to be taken in third trimester. I'd gone with prickly heat and nearly took something toxic for my baby had I not second guessed the doctor.

Honestly I could go on.

Equally, I have many experiences of medical staff being thorough and spot on.

In the field I work in (a professional, but not medicine), you could get different opinions from two different practitioners about the same scenario...life is complex and it's good to ask questions and be thorough about outcomes.

Point being, it's good to get medical advice, but not to just follow it blindly.

You don’t seem to have a clue what failure to thrive is.

You really hate women who take charge of their own bodies. You’re on thread after thread, demeaning women who are struggling with bfing.
A women seeking more advice on child birth etc is just that... empowering herself with knowledge . Medicine is very strict with not a lot of movement .
Medicine specific for women is dire. Do as we say do as you’re told!
But I dont get why the parents dont just try formula to see if it makes a difference

This goes directly against medical advice that you should bf exclusively for the first two years of a child’s life. You decided it was better to provide formula , the same way other women feel that not getting induced , or not giving up on bfing is the best decision.

Come on you and I both know the main message sent to women is to snap back. There isn’t enough support for the fourth trimester , cluster feeding etc. That’s why women seek help from those who have more experience.

Midwives are over worked, they generally go by baby’s weight and can be overzealous in their approach in order to keep baby’s following the correct centimetres. They often don’t have the time to help a new mum. They often ignore other markers for thriving , ie input , out of nappies, sleeping, alertness.

The same way if a toddler isn’t speaking by 2 a HV can often start to push for further investigations etc before looking at other developmental markers.

*centile

You’re on thread after thread, demeaning women who are struggling with bfing.

If this is true, I do wonder why. Who benefits from formula, do we know? And considering the strict rules about promoting it, do we think there might be ways that the marketeers try to get around those strict rules? Via, say, a parenting forum, posing as a 'concerned mum'?

@ScrimpshawTheSecond

It would make more sense , because I don’t understand any other motive.

@sauvignonblancplz

You mean one other thread? If I was one of the militant breastfeeders on here pushing women to continue at all costs and overloading them with 'tips' you wouldn't be saying anything. It is attitudes like yours that demean women who bottle feed.

I don't have a 'motive' for starting this thread. A viewpoint, yes. But it isnt a petition, it's a thread. If you dont want to discuss the topic, stop posting.

My original post was mainly about the bottle feeding issue (when formula is recommended by professionals) and women going against medical advice with regards to pregnancy etc. But I've just had a thousand posts about GPs misdiagnosing people, and why breastfeeding is the be all and end all. My question remains unanswered.

Interestingly 54% of the votes are in my favour so a quiet majority are reading this thread and can see the point I'm making.

But I haven’t demeaned bottle feeding . Entirely the opposite- I’ve questioned you questioning medical advice and those women who go against it and yet you say yourself you went against it?

I believe knowledge and options , as MANY, options as possible for women, as much support and advice for women is the way forward.
Unlike yourself I have a serious amount of compassion for women who are struggling to find their voice. For women who just need real life support.
I wouldn’t start such a demeaning thread , where you are suggest women make these decision for any other reason other than what they think is best.
You’re so judgemental.

Bottle fed, breast feed, get the lump check twice or three times. Elect a section or decline an induction. Ask all the questions .

Of course you have. You have implied women bottle feed because they feel the need to snap back and don't understand breastfeeding properly. I'm only talking about very specific situations whereas you are making a sweeping generalisation about all bottle feeders.

So the midwives, health visitors, lactation specialists, peer support workers, breastfeeding groups, La Leche League, the Breastfeeding Foundations, NCT and Kellymom websites along with forums such as Mumsnet, books, youtube videos and endless blogs arent enough?

Bloody hell what lengths would you make somebody go to before giving up?!

People like you think you're being helpful and supportive of women, but you're not - you heap pressure on them and make them second guess themselves with an overload of 'tips' and suggestions. I don't think women tied themselves up in knots over infant feeding 30 years ago because there weren't obsessives like yourself pushing an agenda.

So the midwives, health visitors, lactation specialists, peer support workers, breastfeeding groups, La Leche League, the Breastfeeding Foundations, NCT and Kellymom websites along with forums such as Mumsnet, books, youtube videos and endless blogs arent enough?

I’m short ? No it’s not enough .

You misunderstand , I think on purpose, my phrase snap back- you relate it only to feeding. It’s so much more than that.

I believe there should be mountains more support for women in the fourth trimester. No matter what way they are feeding their child, unlike yourself I don’t think it matters how a woman feeds her child. It matters that she’s supported uncategorically in that decision.

Why does that confuse you ? Why do you want women just do as they are told?

@sauvignonblancplz

Interesting. So what extra support would you suggest? All new mums being sent home from hospital with a lactation specialist to live with them for 2 years? Breastfeeding videos being injected into their eyeballs like a clockwork orange?

Have you ever heard of the phrase 'it's okay to stop'? Sometimes that it what people want to hear when they are incredibly stressed about something. They need to be told theyve done enough, theyve tried their best. But they don't. They get suggested another supplement, another breastfeeding group, etc and the cycle of stress starts again.

Why are you so focused on bfing?
I think you need to educate yourself on the welfare surrounding women’s medicine and stop being so tunnel visioned about it.

Women question HCP because they can and they should . Often our best asset is our instinct it’s fabulous that women are pushing for more support and answers and seeking second opinions.

In the Netherlands they have a kraamverzorger . To me this sounds amazing and I imagine would be invaluable support .

@sauvignonblancplz

Why are you so focused on bfing?

Because you keep posting about it, and I'm replying?

@Wolfgirrl Amongst other things which you are choosing to directly ignore ...

That’s your choice though .

@sauvignonblancplz

Like what?

HV approaches :
The same way if a toddler isn’t speaking by 2 a HV can often start to push for further investigations etc before looking at other developmental markers

Drs responses to other medical problems:
Bottle fed, breast feed, get the lump check twice or three times. Elect a section or decline an induction. Ask all the questions

I’m I’m support of women questioning HCP if they aren’t happy & gaining more opinions and insights. Doing what is right for them.

Does that help?

Not really, I never asked about speech delays.

I just don't see why you would gain an insight then not listen to it, that's my point.

Huh? But the advice they choose might be a direct contradiction of another HCP - that’s what your issue is.
That the choice differs from something you personally wouldn’t do , therefore you can’t support or understand it.
Me , live and let live. Do what’s right for you .
Simple.

@sauvignonblancplz

I'm talking about people not following medical advice full stop, not people consulting other HCPs.