To stop paying cleaner?

[MoralDialEmma]

Need some thoughts MN! I’ve been paying my cleaner for the last 10 weeks whilst she hasn’t been coming at 80% of salary. She’s self employed via an agency. I had intended to do so until the self-employment packages are available in June (still not comfortable with her coming although this could change). I talked to her today and asked if she would be applying for support in June when it’s available.

Turns out she’s not able to because she hasn’t been declaring her income, and has been receiving benefits due to low income. I know she needs the money and now feel torn. It’s not for me to police her affairs but also I don’t think I want to keep paying when support would have been available had she paid tax. I really like her and value her help, I want to keep her for the long term. There is very little other work around in our area (Midlands).

So AIBU to stop paying her from June until she returns to work?

Or should I look at the bigger picture that we want to be able to help and want her to come back when the time is right?

That really is a decision for you @MoralDialEmma. I've worked for most of my clients for years & was quite prepared to work through - they all asked me not to because they thought they'd be a danger to me!

I'm flummoxed as to why your cleaner hasn't registered as self employed. My NI payments were only slightly less than my tax bill - she really should do it if only to keep her contributions up.
If it was me and providing I could afford it & wanted her back - i'd pay her.
Cleaning people's homes & being given so much trust, being around their babies, seeing some quite personal moments, is a privilege when you clean for lovely people.
However all my clients have told me it's great to have someone honest, reliable & trustworthy as a few had 'bad' experiences previously.

If you want her back pay her. But please don't report her for fraud.
They send women to prison for benefit fraud

I wouldn’t want to pay money to someone who isn’t declaring their income. I would feel complicit and as though I was endorsing it.

I use a company that pays all the cleaners as employees. So they get proper rights and I know there’s nothing dodgy going on. I pay more for that but it’s been good to know they’re being treated properly during this pandemic.

Coming back in 3rd June too!

I wouldn’t report her though, just stop using her.

I would be concerned that HMRC deem her to be your employee and you were liable for her tax. To determine this you would need to look at the agreement between you both.

On the other issue -
How long has she been your cleaner? If it's a long time and you value her services and can afford it I would keep paying.

If it's not so long or your struggling to pay, then I think you've been very reasonable paying for 10 weeks already.

I just can't get my head round absolutism around a low earner not declaring income - its a valid position but does that mean people don't use Amazon, Apple, Ebay - or other large companies that are tax registered abroad or who use 'creative' tax schemes?.

I am in this position as I’d hazard a guess my cleaner doesn’t declare her income.

But I grew up poor and I know what it’s like and I know she has a lot of dependents.

She is great at her job and been with me a number of years. Completely trust worthy, it’s hard to find. I have not asked her whether she was claiming any financial support I don’t care. I paid when I asked her not to come, I now have her back, I would not see her struggle when I’d asked her not to come, and she doesn’t clean because she’s rolling in it. They are low income.and if she gets paid twice for a few weeks, then good for her.

So I’d not have asked her if she was getting the money elsewhere, and I’d not have fired her for not declaring her income.

But you do you op. Go to bed feeling smug you fired a woman financially struggling and made a value judgement on her.

Go you.

@GirlsInGreen I think if you consider it in this context it’s non-declaration of income in order to claim benefits which you wouldn’t be eligible for if you declared all your income. I’m not talking about any other context.

Oh and op, you likely made her life a little bit harder than it already is.

Hopefully she finds a client who doesn’t ask about her personal finances, and doesn’t judge her.

I'm flummoxed as to why your cleaner hasn't registered as self employed

If she's not originally from the UK, she might not know this exists. The agency is exploiting people. I expect they tell people to claim benefits do they can get away with paying less pay.

I don't think the Amazon etc comments are even even remotely relevant. It's possible to hold views on both things. Also, what Amazon do is not illegal, what the cleaner is doing is. If you don't like the law you lobby your MP, not just think it's therefore OK for the law to be broken.

@MoralDialEmma God love her, she must be absolutely desperate - benefits are totally on the bones if your arse, counting the slices of bread money.

The cuts have been brutal over the last ten years - if you're trying to keep body & soul together, have a poor education it really is a trap.

I would just say this - circumstance alters every case. I hope you can carry on paying her. I hope she finds more clients or better paying work. I hope she's able to pay your kindness & lack of judgement 'forward' one day

No its not illegal very morally questionable though!

for @Bluntness100 . I didn’t ask her, she told me. I didn’t fire her, she chose not to come back. She has also has several hundred pounds that we paid her over the last few weeks so no, I don’t feel very guilty about it and no, I don’t feel very smug. I feel like a mug. Considering 94% of the poll agrees IANBU I think I will leave it here. Thanks to everyone who has offered honest and helpful input, I appreciate it

No, if she hasn't been declaring then I wouldn't pay and I would terminate employment. She hasn't been contributing to the NHS we're trying to protect and you're essentially just giving someone money for nothing

If you want to keep her I’d pay her, good cleaners are like gold dust, I know our cleaner could fill our space in a heart beat