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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To stop paying cleaner?

89 replies

MoralDialEmma · 14/05/2020 16:41

Need some thoughts MN! I’ve been paying my cleaner for the last 10 weeks whilst she hasn’t been coming at 80% of salary. She’s self employed via an agency. I had intended to do so until the self-employment packages are available in June (still not comfortable with her coming although this could change). I talked to her today and asked if she would be applying for support in June when it’s available.

Turns out she’s not able to because she hasn’t been declaring her income, and has been receiving benefits due to low income. I know she needs the money and now feel torn. It’s not for me to police her affairs but also I don’t think I want to keep paying when support would have been available had she paid tax. I really like her and value her help, I want to keep her for the long term. There is very little other work around in our area (Midlands).

So AIBU to stop paying her from June until she returns to work?

Or should I look at the bigger picture that we want to be able to help and want her to come back when the time is right?

OP posts:
Tereskova · 16/05/2020 16:38

I would carry on paying her. I wouldn't give a shit about her not paying taxes. The system is fucked, when big corporations and billionares start paying their fair share then I might worry about a cleaner and her few hundred quid.

Bluntness100 · 16/05/2020 16:42

My cleaner came back this week at my request, she was happy to do so and the majority of her clients didn’t cancel her, she’s worked throughout because the guidance was cleaners could

I paid her for the nearly two months she didn’t come because it was my decision for her not to. Not hers and not the governments.i also would not ask about her personal finances. It is none of my business.

I think it’s rude to ask her about her personal finances. It’s none of your business and for me it’s your decision not to have her there so you should pay her.

maddy68 · 16/05/2020 16:43

I haven't paid mine. But then again I'm not earning Anything either!

Pipandmum · 16/05/2020 16:50

If she was self employed and able to claim it rom th scheme it would have been back dated to the start of lock down - was the idea that she would pay you back? She knew the whole time that she was claiming benefits but letting you keep paying her - and assuming some of her other clients were too so she was being paid twice not to work.
My cleaner has a part time job and takes cash in hand for cleaning. I offered to pay her 50% (I've lost about 40% of my own income) but she was decent enough to say she had been furloughed from her job and didn't need it (I'm sure she does but just felt uncomfortable).

Original poster
MoralDialEmma · 16/05/2020 16:50

I think it’s rude to ask her about her personal finances. It’s none of your business and for me it’s your decision not to have her there so you should pay her. Would be nice if you could read the thread but I will explain again. This only came to light because I have been paying her throughout, the SE grant is now available to cover her income meaning I don’t need to keep paying unless you think she should get paid twice? I didn’t ask about her personal finances, I asked if she would be getting the SE grant. She’s said no and told me why.

You don't know what or why she's not declaring so please stay out yes I do. She’s not declaring anything in order to claim benefits.

OP posts:
VanGoghsDog · 16/05/2020 16:52

it’s your decision not to have her there so you should pay her.

By that standard we should all pay all the cleaners we sack after we sack them as it's our choice not to have them work for us.

Original poster
MoralDialEmma · 16/05/2020 16:53

was the idea that she would pay you back? no, at the beginning there was no guidance on SE benefits. I did it essentially as a retainer and to support her.

But it’s a good question for anyone who has been continuing to pay their cleaners though as you’re right, if it’s back dated (and they’ve declared their income) they will be paid twice.

OP posts:
Original poster
MoralDialEmma · 16/05/2020 16:54

I wonder if there are going to be rather a few fractious relations between people who worked on the basis of mutual trust in each other doing the right thing.

OP posts:
StatisticalSense · 16/05/2020 16:57

With cleaners now being told to return to work I think you realistically have the choice of continuing to pay her in order to retain your slot or telling her that you are fine with her seeking other clients with the understanding she may never return if you don't want to pay her. You can't both choose not to pay someone for a service they are willing to provide and providing is permitted and also expect them to keep a slot open for when you do wish to pay them again.

CrouchingTraceyHiddenLadders · 16/05/2020 17:01

Just to clarify @MoralDiaLEmma
You can claim the self employed grant even if no tax has been paid ever (if you fall below the income tax threshold) The criteria is based on being registered as self employed and filing an annual tax return.

Original poster
MoralDialEmma · 16/05/2020 17:09

Thanks @CrouchingTraceyHiddenLadders that’s what I was expecting, but she’s not registered as SE and doesn’t file a tax return

OP posts:
Bluntness100 · 16/05/2020 17:13

Op, if you’re this morally offended then just cancel her services. And find someone else, ensure to ask at interview if they are declaring their income.

Original poster
MoralDialEmma · 16/05/2020 17:14

@StatisticalSense Sadly we’ve agreed that she’s not coming back, so she has not only lost out on the SE grant, she has also lost a job out of it as well, one that really took care of her.

OP posts:
Original poster
MoralDialEmma · 16/05/2020 17:16

@Bluntness100 what would you do if you were in this situation?

OP posts:
Original poster
MoralDialEmma · 16/05/2020 17:18

Also I shouldn’t need to ask if they’re declaring income as long as it’s paid by BACS, I paid by BACS but didn’t realise it wasn’t an account with her name on it

OP posts:
Original poster
MoralDialEmma · 16/05/2020 17:19

So I asked If I could keep her on but pay into an account in her name, she said no

OP posts:
optimisticpessimist01 · 16/05/2020 17:19

She's committing fraud. YANBU.

chatterbugmegastar · 16/05/2020 17:34

She’s not in my home

Not atm

But she WAS in your home and almost certainly committing benefit fraud then, as she is now

Do you feel comfortable-employing a criminal?

Lalala205 · 16/05/2020 17:42

You should definately report her! Hopefully she'll get locked up! How fucking dare she earn an extra tenner or so by scrubbing other people's shit stains away. Its scum like that who boil my blood...

Original poster
MoralDialEmma · 16/05/2020 17:48

@Lalala205 I don’t think anyone risk suggesting any of the things you’ve mentioned at all

OP posts:
Original poster
MoralDialEmma · 16/05/2020 17:48

*is

OP posts:
CrouchingTraceyHiddenLadders · 16/05/2020 17:51

@MoralDialEmma I realise that your cleaner has not registered as self employed, sorry I was just clarifying that you don't need to be a tax payer to claim the grant (you just need to file annual returns)
What your cleaner has done is fraud, it's not up to you to police her actions.
I think it's abhorrent that people think it's fine to swindle money from taxpayers.
I could go on..and on. But I'm too miffed.Blush

GirlsInGreen · 16/05/2020 17:52

I clean - most of my clients have paid me. I'm enormously grateful. I applied for the grant this week and will be paying clients back. I won't be going back to clients who didn't pay ( all my clients are Dr's).

But yeah , sack her & report her. It tax avoiders like her who rob public sevices... oh wait Amazon, Starbucks, Google, Apple. Ebay. But fuck it start small👍

Original poster
MoralDialEmma · 16/05/2020 17:57

@GirlsInGreen that’s very good of you to pay people back, I’m sure most wouldn’t have been expecting you too. Again, this question from my side wasn’t about reporting, although other posters have suggested it might be what they would do. However, she’s said that I can’t transfer BACS payment into an account in her name, I can only pay cash or into an account that’s not in her name going forwards, so what would you do if you were me?

OP posts:
Cosyblanky · 16/05/2020 18:00

I think your cleaner is cheeky, but I think the agency is worse. If you really like her stop paying her until she can actually do the work and explain you are happy to keep her if she can declare the income. The agency is corrupt.