To cringe at the British mentality on the property market?

[GinDaddyRedux]

N.B full disclosure I am British, and a homeowner. before anyone questions!

I've read a number of articles online, and a number of posts on here, about the property market after easing of the COVID-19 lockdown. Some of them talking about a drop of 7%, some of 20%. Goodness only knows what's accurate here.

This wasn't the thing that grated on me though. It was the bitter, nasty comments on one newspaper that "young first time buyers are insulting if they offer 10% below asking. They're usually the sort who can't manage money anyway." Or "just because you ask for a discount doesn't mean you're going to get one! Greedy! I worked hard for my investment!!" etc. One even went as far to say "never, ever lower your price for anyone. People who ask are taking the piss."

AIBU to feel the whole mentality around housing is what is so wrong here?

The belief that house prices must, and should, inexorably rise no matter what the economic or social circumstances of the UK, just because millions of Brits have ties themselves up in that dream and want a slice of it?

Surely where we should be is a situation whereby if you need to move, you move. Obviously if you can ride out a crisis like this and have the space, great. But a house is a dwelling first, an investment second as far as I see it.

Therefore if first time buyers want to buy something this year, and make an offer that reflects their reality, why is it insulting or cheeky? Estate agents are legally obliged to put them forward. So. Why the "emotion" as if they are robbing someone's pension pot?

It's because I firmly believe too many people have tied up some of their hopes and self worth in housing. It's "insulting" and "cheeky" for someone to offer lower than asking price, yet we don't think twice about haggling the sticker price on a new car. Granted, a new vehicle isn't imbued with years of memories. Yet there are people who treat it like a personal insult.

AIBU to think some people need to accept they won't get the heady sale prices of 2016/2017, if you need to sell, you just sell. No one is being "cheeky" by asking to buy it at a price they consider reasonable.

I think it’s an emotive subject because so many of us have so much money tied up in our houses, it’s probably the most expensive thing we will ever own.

We bought our house in 2017 (before stamp duty was axed) at what was probably the peak of the market in our area although we didn’t know that at the time. As FTBers, we took advice from parents/grandparents to buy somewhere small and move up the ladder in a few years and also take out a fix rate mortgage as interest rates couldn’t possibly go any lower. So that’s what we did only to watch interest rates slide even further whilst we can’t remortgage without a hefty fee. But it’s fine we thought, because we are building up our equity to move up the ladder in a few years time. If there’s a crash, we are fucked. It won’t make any odds to us that the next house up is cheaper because we will have lost most or all of the equity we need to make a deposit.

It annoys me that existing homeowners are demonised for trying to rinse poor FTBers when actually a FTB now is likely to be in a much better position than what we are especially without the stamp duty.

So yeah, I don’t expect prices to rise but I admit I’d be pretty gutted if there was a huge fall and we were trappped in a starter home while FTBers snap up cheaper family homes without paying any stamp duty.

I’m not bitter at all

I find myself bemused by 'offers in excess of ...' listings. There's always a fair few where we are, but the market hasn't been all that for a while.

It is a home, worth what someone is willing to pay for it, so don't expect people not to negotiate.

I used to work as an estate agent, some time ago now. Because of my experience there I'd honestly never go straight in at asking price. Always,always start lower than what it's been stuck on Rightmove for.

It is a home, worth what someone is willing to pay for it, so don't expect people not to negotiate

I would always expect someone to negotiate but that doesnt mean I'm going to accept stupid offers that are waaaay below market value. Especially when similar properties are priced the same as mine! Luckily I live in an area where houses prices are always high and always increase in value. Theres negotiation and then there is taking the piss and I dont have to sell to anyone. Always negotiate, but if you put in a stupidly low offer, dont have high expectations people are going to accept it.

That wasn’t the question though. It was about being offended if someone puts in a low offer. You can reject an offer at above asking price if you want. But there’s no need to be offended if someone offers below what you want to take.

I definitely wouldn't be offended.

I'd probably laugh if someone offered something ridiculous and I'd think they had no clue about the housing market or the area. But I wouldnt be "offended" lol.

I'd probably laugh if someone offered something ridiculous and I'd think they had no clue about the housing market or the area. But I wouldnt be "offended" lol.

Yeah I'd probably laugh too if someone offered way way below what my house was worth on a survey, and then reject it. But I don't get how you can get offended by it. I think these people getting offended have too much time on their hands.

Many people do not understand that ‘investments’ do not always have a positive return.

It’s a sellers prerogative to refuse an ‘insulting’ offer just as it’s a buyers prerogative to offer the level they want.

Yanbu op and I speak as a home "owner" mortgage payer

We were looking a couple of years ago, and there were some houses which were lovely but needed work (new kitchens, bathrooms, full redecoration and carpet as nothing had been touched for 40 years), however were very expensive for the area we live in. Every single time I asked the estate agent, about the pricing, I always got the same reply ‘owner led pricing’ and an eye roll. Strangely all those houses are still on the market for the same prices, and worth even less now than they were 2 years ago. They will never sell, some people just have a price in their heads and will never shift on it.

I'd think they had no clue about the housing market or the area

But the market changes so what might be true one month can change the next month.

If my neighbour has their house up for 900k but the house needs work which they think is reflected in the price & they are firm on price, that's fine. But I then put mine up for 1m (new kitchen/bathroom etc compared to neighbour) but see my dream home & want to move quickly & they accept my offer so I accept less on mine and sell for 900k. Ndn now looks expensive.

People have very fixed ideas of what their property is 'worth' and struggle to grasp that a property is only worth what someone will pay for it.

Correct. Economic illiteracy is widespread.

The value of a property stated on a survey is one person’s opinion. Nothing more, nothing less. The market value of a property is what someone is actually prepared to pay for it. No more, no less.

Never read the comments- too often they are trolls looking to piss people off.

People have very fixed ideas of what their property is 'worth' and struggle to grasp that a property is only worth what someone will pay for it

I agree but why get upset by it? Not every property on the market is priced ridiculously. If people want to price their houses way above what its actually worth who cares? its THEM that will suffer because they wont sell it will they? Once its been on the market for 2 years + they'll probably come around to the idea that a price drop is needed. There is no need to be indignant at them, because their houses wont sell. Its a simple as that. Alot of emotional handwringing in this thread when there need not be. People who make ridiculously low offers will go without buying and sellers who price their houses too high wont sell.
The consequences will force people to learn in the end.

I agree. People should be able to offer whatever they feel the property is actually worth, and the owners can either accept or decline the offer.

I don't understand the notion that property prices should be sacred either. They surely fluctuate according to demand, as with any other commodity.

You lot have a very strange way of looking at things. Someone comes round my house and tells me how much they think it's worth. If I like that figure I proceed to market based on that number. That is then the number that I will sell at give or take a tiny bit of flexibility. If sony decide the new playstation is £500, I don't offer Curry's £300, as that is all I am prepared to pay.

That’s a slightly silly example Coronabored.

Economic illiteracy is widespread

There's an example

Thank you for illustrating my point so eloquently, @Coronabored.

1. A PlayStation is a mass-manufactured item. Each house is unique, slightly different
2. Individual shops do actually choose what they sell Playstations at. Hence sales
3. You’ve admitted in your post that there is a ‘tiny’ bit of flexibility. Try going into Curry’s and offering £499 for a £500 PlayStation.

If you really think buying and selling a house is the same as buying and selling a PlayStation then you’re so far removed from reality you probably don’t own a house or have a job.

Clearly if you go in Curry’s for a TV will all know there is no wiggle room.

But if you are going to an independent furniture shop and spending 30grand you are going to be more likely to get a discount.

In curry’s you are speaking to a minimum wage sales person - in an independent shop you are probably speaking to the owner who has the power to make a decision on discounts.

If sony decide the new playstation is £500, I don't offer Curry's £300, as that is all I am prepared to pay.

But you do look elsewhere to see if you can get it cheaper, don't you?

Coronabored we got 400k off a house in 2006 - it does happen!

You are clearly talking about a million pound house there. Not quite first time buyer figures