To cringe at the British mentality on the property market?

[GinDaddyRedux]

N.B full disclosure I am British, and a homeowner. before anyone questions!

I've read a number of articles online, and a number of posts on here, about the property market after easing of the COVID-19 lockdown. Some of them talking about a drop of 7%, some of 20%. Goodness only knows what's accurate here.

This wasn't the thing that grated on me though. It was the bitter, nasty comments on one newspaper that "young first time buyers are insulting if they offer 10% below asking. They're usually the sort who can't manage money anyway." Or "just because you ask for a discount doesn't mean you're going to get one! Greedy! I worked hard for my investment!!" etc. One even went as far to say "never, ever lower your price for anyone. People who ask are taking the piss."

AIBU to feel the whole mentality around housing is what is so wrong here?

The belief that house prices must, and should, inexorably rise no matter what the economic or social circumstances of the UK, just because millions of Brits have ties themselves up in that dream and want a slice of it?

Surely where we should be is a situation whereby if you need to move, you move. Obviously if you can ride out a crisis like this and have the space, great. But a house is a dwelling first, an investment second as far as I see it.

Therefore if first time buyers want to buy something this year, and make an offer that reflects their reality, why is it insulting or cheeky? Estate agents are legally obliged to put them forward. So. Why the "emotion" as if they are robbing someone's pension pot?

It's because I firmly believe too many people have tied up some of their hopes and self worth in housing. It's "insulting" and "cheeky" for someone to offer lower than asking price, yet we don't think twice about haggling the sticker price on a new car. Granted, a new vehicle isn't imbued with years of memories. Yet there are people who treat it like a personal insult.

AIBU to think some people need to accept they won't get the heady sale prices of 2016/2017, if you need to sell, you just sell. No one is being "cheeky" by asking to buy it at a price they consider reasonable.

Doesn't sound like anything much to do with the housing market. Stop reading right wing papers that pander to the greedy.

If you look at your house as just an investment, then you are relying on the market and hoping for no market crashes. That's kind of stupid in my opinion because there is always likely to be another crash at some point. Just look at history, it's not like they are that rare. I wouldn't ever tie all of my money into one asset, especially one that may be of no interest to anyone in the future.

If people won't buy your house, you've priced it too high. If you lose money, that's no ones fault, it's just life. Sometimes you're lucky with houses, sometimes you aren't.

To ask for a high £ or to offer a low £ is neither greedy or cheeky.

It's a belonging. You can put whatever price you like on it. You can pay whatever price you want for it. The trick is to find a spot where both the £ wanted and the £ paid are the same.

To think of people trying to sell a house at a high price point as greedy is wrong. That is the price they are willing to sell at. Maybe someone will pay it, maybe they won't. Their risk.

To think of people trying to buy a house at a low price point as cheeky is wrong. That is the price they are willing to pay. Maybe they won't get the house for that price, or maybe they will. It's their risk.

Most people I know wouldn’t think twice about making an offer 10% below asking. Though of course so much will depend on the local market, desirability of the property, etc. When prices are shooting up and everything’s selling fast, you either pay up, find something cheaper, or wait.

I don’t think everybody by any means is keen on ever-rising prices - so many people who are priced out, for a start. Though anyone who’s going to be in negative equity if prices drop more than a very few % , is naturally going to be anxious if they can’t stay put and ride out any ups and downs.

What I really hate is the so-called property ‘experts’ and journalists - in particular one who writes in the Times, who always apparently sees price rises as a jolly good thing, and has used ‘improving’ as a synonym for ‘rising’ as regards house prices. 🤬

So many of the priced-out would see the exact opposite.

In any case, whether offers are ‘cheeky’ or not, will depend on whether the asking price is realistic or wildly optimistic. Some people are either misled by estate agents anxious for the business, or else are convinced that their house is so wonderful that anyone should be grateful to be allowed to buy it at all.

@mousemartin we & i'm sure many others are now looking at leaving our lovely area of zone 2. We have a garden but I've always wanted to live in Hampshire & have family there. DH doesn't want a long commute but it's looking like he will wfh 4 days a wek now so lots of options.

The idea of some people getting ideas above their station, and other people finding it offensive, is quintessentially British.
So is the idea that everyone deserves to buy their own home.
I'm just jealous, though

With the economic uncertainty at the moment it takes a brave buyer to saddle themselves with a price that may devalue soon.

Many parts of London are full of "luxury" overpriced new build high rise apartments eg Vauxhall/Battersea. Will they still be so desired?

The thing is someone could put in a low offer but I have no incentive to accept one that’s ridiculously low (for me that’s below 2-3pc) - I would just say no and if someone tried to play hardball after getting solicitors involved I would be sueing for legal fees. It’s nothing personal though and people need to stop viewing it as such.

Often times a Sellers 'reasonable' price is not 'reasonable' to the Buyer. I have seen many Sellers dig in over an unrealistic Selling price because they 'need' the money for the next move ... completely not understanding that just because they 'need' a certain amount doesn't make their house automatically worth that amount in many market conditions.

Houses are worth what people will pay to have them, nothing more, nothing less.

@GrumpyHoonMain you really think 4% is ridiculously low? As a buyer do you never offer under?

The thing is many sellers who don’t need to sell will just take their properties off the market (repossessed properties rarely come in the open market - they usually go to auction) and so the stock will be limited. If mortgage requirements get tighter too then we’ll end up in a market which prefers high income / cash buyers and so prices may not drop much.

@dibble15 - 4% would be 15k below asking price for me, which would be a strong no from me as I live a 2 min drive from a train station where you can easily commute to London / Manchester / Birmingham within 30-60mins, and only a few mins more to the M1. The area is lovely too and our house is already priced well under other properties in the market because we know it has work to do. Anyone who offered below 4% would show they didn’t really know the area.

Often times a Sellers 'reasonable' price is not 'reasonable' to the Buyer.

If this is the case then the seller should not put an offer in, and just look at properties within their means.

Buyer not seller!

I think you put your finger on it gindaddyredux when you pointed out how low savings rates are. Added to that pension scandals have made people look on property as the only reliable investment but when property prices rise more than wages and inflation, then it doesn't help younger people or create geographical mobility, except for those who are moving from London to the country.

I agree that there are sellers who can't accept that buyers have a choice and who overprice their home. It's ok to put in a lower offer - unless as mentioned it gets to exchange day (assuming nothing has emerged that might affect the house price). If I had a choice between someone who put in a lower offer from the start but was completely upfront and problem free over a buyer who eventually paid the full asking price after months of to-ing and fro-ing, I know which one I would go for.

@viewfromthecouch, exactly. A house not a million miles from us took just over 3 years to sell because the price was over-optimistic to start with. One of the vendors explained to me that they ‘couldn’t’ reduce the price, because that was what they needed. It didn’t seem to occur to them that needing £Xk didn’t mean anyone was ever going to pay it, not if the price was simply too high.

Of course the price was eventually reduced in little nibbles and eventually sold for less than a couple of the offers they’d turned down.
IMO such cases are not at all uncommon.

@GrumpyHoonMain so you've never offered under and won't in the future?

I guess it depends on markets, 15k is nothing in my area.

House prices have fallen before and can do so again.

It's all about supply and demand. If there's a deep recession then people will have less money to spend and many will defer house hunting until their financial circumstances improve; potential buyers from overseas will be put off by possible restrictions in travel in the future; people thinking of upsizing or downsizing will sit and wait for prices to settle, etc etc.

So prices may fall. There will then come a point where house purchase looks like a "bargain" and sales will start to increase, along with demand - so prices will then start to rise again and possibly will rise quite quickly as people scramble to buy before being priced out of the market. This cycle has happened many times in my lifetime.

AIBU to feel the whole mentality around housing is what is so wrong here?
YANBU it's fucking nuts.

Do you really think this is just a “British” thing ?
You’re deluded

Completely disagree, Grumpy. Why should anyone pay more than they think a house is truly worse, just because the Seller wants/imagines/needs it to be worth more?

If this is the case then the buyer should not put an offer in, and just look at properties within their means.

But that's not a reflection of the fact that many people accept offers &/or price higher to allow for them.

@viewfromthecouch - why are these buyers even seeing the properties that need to be lowered by 15-100k to make them affordable to them? Everyone should go for properties they can afford. A buyer can offer what they like but a seller can accept what they want too. For example many won’t even touch those with mortgages in my area and have still managed to sell.

The area is lovely too and our house is already priced well under other properties in the market because we know it has work to do.

And if any of the higher prices properties accept less because they can take the hit is your property priced well.

Certainly in my area of London prices have been held back because some who bought yrs ago can & do take "less".