To cringe at the British mentality on the property market?

[GinDaddyRedux]

N.B full disclosure I am British, and a homeowner. before anyone questions!

I've read a number of articles online, and a number of posts on here, about the property market after easing of the COVID-19 lockdown. Some of them talking about a drop of 7%, some of 20%. Goodness only knows what's accurate here.

This wasn't the thing that grated on me though. It was the bitter, nasty comments on one newspaper that "young first time buyers are insulting if they offer 10% below asking. They're usually the sort who can't manage money anyway." Or "just because you ask for a discount doesn't mean you're going to get one! Greedy! I worked hard for my investment!!" etc. One even went as far to say "never, ever lower your price for anyone. People who ask are taking the piss."

AIBU to feel the whole mentality around housing is what is so wrong here?

The belief that house prices must, and should, inexorably rise no matter what the economic or social circumstances of the UK, just because millions of Brits have ties themselves up in that dream and want a slice of it?

Surely where we should be is a situation whereby if you need to move, you move. Obviously if you can ride out a crisis like this and have the space, great. But a house is a dwelling first, an investment second as far as I see it.

Therefore if first time buyers want to buy something this year, and make an offer that reflects their reality, why is it insulting or cheeky? Estate agents are legally obliged to put them forward. So. Why the "emotion" as if they are robbing someone's pension pot?

It's because I firmly believe too many people have tied up some of their hopes and self worth in housing. It's "insulting" and "cheeky" for someone to offer lower than asking price, yet we don't think twice about haggling the sticker price on a new car. Granted, a new vehicle isn't imbued with years of memories. Yet there are people who treat it like a personal insult.

AIBU to think some people need to accept they won't get the heady sale prices of 2016/2017, if you need to sell, you just sell. No one is being "cheeky" by asking to buy it at a price they consider reasonable.

@dibble15 - No I don’t offer under asking. I go for properties that fit my requirements - many people are like me. I don’t have time to negotiate and so won’t look at properties I can’t afford.

I disagree that it's normal to offer asking price particularly in uncertain times.

Presumably they're seeing them because they consider that they might be able to put in a lower offer that's then accepted grumpy, as they have every right to do. If its not then accepted, both parties have wasted a degree of time, but that's the risk inherent in trying to sell a property or negotiate price, and one that both accept as a condition of selling or trying to purchase a house. That's just how it is.

Often times a Sellers 'reasonable' price is not 'reasonable' to the Buyer

So? No one is forcing anyone to buy a house that’s overpriced are they? The people who overprice their houses won’t sell them will they and they will have to get to a point where they realise this. But there is no point getting angry about it- they can price their houses for whatever price they choose! If it’s unrealistic it won’t sell. It’s as simple as that. No point getting upset about it.

House prices dropped in the early 1990s, and many owners were left with negative equity. Fine, if you are just living there, but not so fine, if you actually want to move.
A house is worth what someome else is willing to buy it for.
If someone is desperate to sell, they may reduce the price. Otherwise, they do not have to reduce the price at all, but then you can buy somewhere else.

As for it being a purely ‘British’ thing, I just don’t think that’s true any more. Prices have risen a lot in parts of Europe, especially in major cities, and I gather that many people are more inclined to buy - if they can. Obviously often a big if - same as here.

A Swedish friend who lived in the U.K. for 20 odd years and recently moved back, has told me that many more people would now prefer to buy - again if they can. When she moved back to Stockholm, where prices have risen a lot, she didn’t even think of renting, though it would have been the norm before and the rules are still more tenant-friendly than here.

Her son, who’s married with a young family, is now in his 3rd house, having bought, done up, made a profit and moved to something better. That’s far from just a ‘Brit thing’ now.

Also, close to my friend’s home in Stockholm are masses of fairly upmarket new-build flats - and they’re for sale, not for rent.

As I've said before - more than once..

A house is ONLY WORTH what a willing buyer will pay for it!

We bought a bit of a do-er upper circa 4.5 years ago as first time buyers. Did so much work on it, real blood sweat and tears stuff. Spent all our spare cash on it, slept on the bare floorboards until we could afford carpets etc etc. We now have two kids and are ready to move somewhere bigger. We waited until ‘Spring’ this year as we were repeatedly told it was the best time to go on the market. We were just ready to go (survey, photos and advert done) when Coronavirus happened. Now we’re being told to expect to take 20% off the price... well if we do that we can’t afford to move. We managed to save up what we would need in fees etc but the deposit for the new place would have to come out of the equity (of which there will be very, very little if we were to take 20% less). It’s hard not to get emotive. It just seems so unfair. Everyone’s saying ‘oh great the first time buyers deserve a break’ but what about us young families who worked our asses off to be able to afford our first time house and now are totally screwed! It’s not all boomers selling off their big houses for slightly less in their pension pots you know.

I'm expecting quite a dramatic crash tbh.

Internationally the UK is worst hit by the coronavirus, Brexit is looming, and young people who would normally be looking at buying their first homes are saddled with tens of thousands of pounds of student debt.

Job losses are ongoing as firms go under and there is going to be another round of them when furlough ends in October. Lots of people will be unable to make their mortgage payments leading to repossessions and the rental market is going to take a massive hit especially given that AirBnB is dead in the water.

There is rather a good article in the New Statesman at the moment about how much of the government coronavirus subsidy is going to landlords. This is completely unsustainable.

(www.newstatesman.com/politics/economy/2020/05/rentier-landlords-rent-coronavirus-government-loans-mortgage-holiday?fbclid=IwAR0aGRYsgUEO1MpMcQVAbuMo0oh8_4BuxQrTjypH41o5HDcZjL42hRWQ3Uc)

People get very emotional about their houses and take it personally when someone doesn't value their house as much as they do.

The last time we sold a house back in 2012, we had some low ball offers and one couple gave us a ridiculously lowball offer based on some hilarious reasons (they didn't like the showerhead in one of the bathrooms...). Of course we turned it down and laughed between ourselves about their silly offer. A few weeks later they made another offer that was only 5k below our asking price. Our real estate agent was very happy to inform them that we'd just accepted an offer for a over the asking price. Cheeky couple were really annoyed and tried to make the real estate agent call us to make us change our minds!! We felt sorry for any future seller who might deal with them, you could just tell they'd be sort to play games through the closing process.

@Justaboy completely agree I had one estate agent tell me to market my house 75k above the other valuations, I just said no one would be willing to pay that.
Posters that are saying do not offer on a house above your price range, what about a house that has sat on the market for 2 years and not had one offer because it has been priced so far from reality.
House sellers should also consider what 5% means in their price bracket. Just because its a lot of money it still is only 5%

I think after the virus panic, house prices will depend on how many people have lost their jobs and won’t be able to get mortgages

I wouldn’t agree that you should only look at houses that are within budget.

Look if you mr budget is 200k don’t look at a million pound house - but if your budget is 800k by all means go and look at that million pound house - because you never know what the sellers situation might be.

Grumpy - thanks bonkers that every time you buy a property you won’t offer one single penny under asking “because you don’t have time” absolutely bonkers!

@phrowzunn a 20% drop on ours & what we buy makes it easier for us to move up the ladder & less stamp duty.

Older people don't think property jsut oes up however! I remember the 1970s property crash and in the 90s we sold two flats at about 50% loss and our last house at a loss in 1997! Property has never been a one way bet for me. I probably London's worst property buyer.

However we were moving up in 1997 so the fact lower value properties had dropped meant the next house we bought (for £850k in 97) had gone down too.

I viewed at house valued at £325k which was definitely overpriced in my opinion given my good knowledge of the area. I liked it though and put in a bid of £300k which was my maximum. Rejected immediately by the seller and the estate agent was a bit sniffy and said they’d never accept such a low offer and lectured me a bit saying they’d only want asking price or ‘realistic’ offers.

I kept an eye on it. Didn’t sell, eventually went off the market. Nearly a year later came back on - at £300k! Was soooo tempted to contact the seller again and say I told you so... (obviously I didn’t)

@op I completely agree. It's a competition; renters vs homeowners. Buy to let's have not helped this. I'm 36, small child, good safe job on more than the national average, but due to btl rent prices I'll be renting til I'm probably 40. No inheritances due, working class families on both sides. It is what it is; several years ago I was paying £1600 for a 1 bed flat in London. Became friendly with landlord; he said mortgage was £700. I think £900pcm profit is ridiculous - in 2 years I paid him an extra £21000 over his mortgage. That's a big reason why some people will never afford to buy!! IMO there should be a cap on profits on BTL, but I'm a wee bit of a Socialist anyway!

In my area there are a lot of really nice, lovely houses in good areas that have been on the market for over a year because the price is too high and the sellers are unable or unwilling to reduce the price to a more realistic rate.

People have very fixed ideas of what their property is 'worth' and struggle to grasp that a property is only worth what someone will pay for it.

Different parts of the country have very different housing markets. House prices in the South East of England are underpinned by strong fundamentals of supply and demand, and while there may be a limited short-term correction, those fundamentals are not going to change in the longer term.

The rest of the country is a completely different world. Pre-covid, this government was making bullish noises about ‘re-balancing the economy’, which would cost many billions. That will now be completely unaffordable, and the rest of the country will suffer a major recession and house prices have a long way to fall.

@Aclh13 How are you going to fund all your travels?

At the end of the day it doesn't matter. After selling dozens of houses I can honestly say A house is only worth what somebody is willing to pay for it.
Sellers get wrapped up in what they perceive to be the value of their property. If they want to sell they have to be realistic.
We hope to sell ours soon, I'm under no doubt the market will decide what I accept, not me.

Reprehensible people are those who wait for exchange day and then drop the offer by 10% in a long chain.
A similar thing happened to us but a month or so before exchange. We accepted it, played along, then on the exchange day told them the house was no longer available to them, there was no chain and he was a cash buyer. They may think twice before trying that stunt again. We sold it for almost the asking price soon after.
Another time we got an offer of £25k below, because the vendor would want to have a large conservatory installed.

the one that always gets me is where peope say "I need £X for this as my new property is £Y" What you need is irrelevant, your property is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. People can make low offers if they like, no-one is obliged to accept them but if you want/need to sell, you can only really expect what the market dictates.

They don't have to buy, you don't have to sell. Making a cheeky offer just because it's all you can afford is pointless if it's for half the property is worth. Making an offer around what you believe the property is worth based on actual knowledge is not cheeky, it's realistic.