Our children have the right to an education.

[NameChange738676756]

So many posts about whether schools will be safe when they reopen but I’m not seeing this point made. Lots of discussion around the childcare that schools provide and the importance on children socially.

My 11 year old has lost all interest and I can’t get him to do anything significant. We’ve had one zoom social with his teacher and classmates. So pretty much zero learning going on.

We know children are less susceptible and there is some discussion around whether they’re transmitting less. The children of key workers (i.e. the ones more likely to catch and spread it) have been at school the whole time and as far as I know there haven’t been massive outbreaks in schools.

So I think I just want to loudly shout: our children have the right to an education.

cantdothisnow1 If a temporary closure direction is issued under the Coronavirus Act 2020 then that ceases to apply (ditto equivalent in Scotland). I can’t see if a closure direction has been issued in England, there hasn’t been one issued in Scotland.

@hatingthevirtuous no I'm suggesting waiting until contact tracing and testing is up and running. And cases are lower so the chance of transmission is lower. Just like the rest of the world. Our rate of infection is not decreasing. Why ? Maybe because the original figures were not right. Much like the death ones.
Teachers want to do it safely for them and the kids. That's all we ask. Some thought rather than a knee jerk.

Overall the point is, there is an increased risk to all of us from COVId but the long term risks of no education, no social contact not to mention the economy crashing and burning are also huge. We all have to accept that and move forward. If it’s too risky to go and teach for you personally then you should not expect to be paid to do that. Just as those who are taking bigger risks should be expect to be rewarded financially or otherwise. The world has changed, the risks are different.

@iamruth if you want to discuss the r value...

Independent scientists have predicted the r is likely closer to .9 as currently due to not testing we actually have no idea how many people genuinely have Covid. It could potentially still be 1 or higher, but while testing and track and trace is so poor it's impossible to establish.

Other countries that have opened schools have had much lower r values eg
Denmark had a r of .6 when they opened, 500 dead and 80 new cases per day, there r has risen to .9 on the 1st of May
Germany also had a lower r value when they reopened schools, 400 cases per day, 7713 dead, and there r value has risen to above 1.

In comparison UK has over 33k dead and over 3000 new cases per day still.

Germany and denmark are also testing at much higher numbers per million and have much more effective track and trace and have done since the beginning.

@iamruth my mums carers have the double layer ones that are standard issue so surprised you don't have the same. Not sure my sock one is all that really. But we will need to change it fit every lesson to stop transmission so I'm going to need a lot of them. And we have been told, by our lovely honest government, that PPE should not be worn in schools. Think everyone should wear a mask - seems to work in S Korea.

Aesopfable I've just looked and am surprised they haven't taken action to remove it. Parents will be able to take action against the local authority if they haven't, the guidance appears to be that the LA should have taken 'reasonable endeavours'.

I'm not sure that providing worksheets amounts to reasonable endeavours.

What do people think about uk’s covid response with high number of deaths and infections - compared to Aus, Nz, S Korea, Singapore, Taiwan, germany?

Do people think that these places will eventually get the same number of deaths as UK - because the only way out is herd immunity? Or do they think in the long-term it evens out because lock-down causes deaths due to mental health and poverty? Or do they think that UK will end up having more deaths than these places but that it is an acceptable price to pay for more freedom?

Whilst I applaud New Zealand for what they have managed to achieve regards the spread of Covid in their country I really don't envy the position they are in now. Their prime minister has made it clear that their borders will not reopen for a long time. They have zero immunity within the population so are reliant on a very effective vaccine being developed otherwise as soon as someone sets foot in that country who has symptoms (which we know can take weeks to show if at all) then it will spread again and whilst better contact tracing may they still have the potential of going through a harsh lockdown again. How is that going to impact the country in terms of their reliance on tourism and skilled migrant workers. Also, their country is very different to ours in terms of the flow of people. The only reason you go to New Zealand unless you live there is for a holiday. It isn't somewhere you have a layover on the way to somewhere else unlike the UK which has volumes of people coming through our main airports on the way to other destinations - thats one of the reasons it has been impossible for us to quarintine all the flights coming into the country.

Mum needs wine, administrator the epipen whilst wearing gloves and mask and use hygiene procedures afterwards, just like when you go to a supermarket etc.

It's all very well waiting. There will always be a reason to delay.

Teachers seem to be pinning their hopes on everything being different by September. It might be; it might not. And if it isn't, shall we just stay off indefinitely?

Or are you like the teacher I discussed this with the other day expecting it will just die out if we all stay at home forever.

There's no evidence of a child infecting a teacher or vice versa.

There's nothing to conclusively say that anything will be different by September.

There is quite a lot of evidence that the economy is already struggling. Another 4 months of this is going to be the end for many businesses. The sheer cost of furloughing is huge. It benefits no one in the long term for us to continue to delay returning to schools and work.

Aus, Nz, S Korea, Singapore, Taiwan, germany?

These places don't all have the same policies.

In theory the UK policy is supposed to be similar to Germany - gradual lifting of restrictions - tracking, testing, tracing and isolation so that the R number is kept down and the virus is controlled and restrictions are targeted and applied as necessary.

In theory we don't know whether any schools will open on 1st June because it is supposed to depend on the infection rate being kept at a particular level.

The problem is that the UK has not yet set up the infrastructure to test, track, trace and isolate.

Funny how teachers aren't parents too.

I'm teaching and working with my kids too. It means I recording lessons and marking in the evenings like normal.

It's bloody hilarious that people bthink teachers don't have kids therefore know nothing about this "balancing act"

I'm assuming they never moved past the stage most kids have where they think teachers live in their classrooms

Hmm. I agree. I’m not refusing to go back either - I’ll go back when my school opens. I mean, it will be different for sure, I don’t know how they’ll implement social distancing but at the same time, isn’t that the point?

People seem to think that social distancing was put in place to stop people catching COVID. It wasn’t, it was to spread out to rate of infection or ‘flatten the curve’

The fact of the matter is, the economy needs to re start, people need to go back to work and children need to go back to school. We can’t just close everything indefinitely, in the hope we manage to create a virus and cure COVID. It may never come.

I don’t pretend to be clever enough to know how this can be done safely, but schools do need to be the first thing to open. Hopefully as teachers, we can work with the unions and the government to enable this to happen.

Iamruth entirely agree with your 18.03 post.

Everyone is obsessing over the small risk they MIGHT catch this virus and the even smaller risk they might die; I'm a lot more worried about the certainty of a looming recession which could take decades to recover from.

@maddening deep breath. WE DON'T HAVE MASKS AND GLOVES THATS THE WHOLE POINT.

I've never stopped going in. I'll go back to school.

I just really hope it doesn't turn out to instigate a second wave, that's all.

Your child has a right to an education, yes. You do not have the right to insist that your child is educated by others, and at any cost.
Your child has the right to expect YOU to handle this situation and you are free to support/not support like the rest of us.

Tunnocks teachers don't need to work with the unions, they are the unions!

Other European countries with high death rate (eg Belgium) are opening schools.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-52635611

Coronavirus shuts school. Schools won't stay open, this will be regular from now onwards.

Having read this article in the Guardian, I'm worried that this is being pushed as the new normal. Online learning instead of physical schools.www.theguardian.com/news/2020/may/13/naomi-klein-how-big-tech-plans-to-profit-from-coronavirus-pandemic
Cuomo had announced a similar partnership with the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation to develop “a smarter education system”. Calling Gates a “visionary”, Cuomo said the pandemic has created “a moment in history when we can actually incorporate and advance [Gates’s] ideas … all these buildings, all these physical classrooms – why, with all the technology you have?” he asked, apparently rhetorically.

I will go in every day too - I've been going in on a rota as it is. I'd like some PPE. Currently making my own. I trust my SLT to come up with the best plan they can. I'm not sending my 8 year old back yet though. Not until the R is much lower. Thankfully dh works from home as a writer and all of his school visits have been cancelled.

@iamruth
Yes, you're right that this is all guidance. I've also just found out it's still only in draft. Other than reducing class sizes to 15, our school had all of the measures outlined in the guidance in place two months ago as there were cases of covid in our area in early March. We had also already cancelled assemblies, clubs and parents evenings.
So it is frustrating that after two months, the DFE have come out with guidance less good than what we cobbled together in a week while teaching full time.
Their guidance needs to be better or some schools will not be safe (I would not trust all trusts or headteachers to follow vague guidance in a sensible way).
I feel lucky because I think my school will be as safe as possible, but it worries me that others will not and lives will be put at unnecessary risk (not just teachers and children, but their families an communities if R increases).

@pennylane83 - Singapore and Hong Kong are travel hubs like UK.

Just require a 2 week quarantine for everyone arriving in the country. At least their domestic life will sooner get back to normal.

@merrymouse - most have some border controls and quarantine, reasonable amounts of testing. UK still have not implemented quarantine from abroad?!

The jobs that were most at risk, so said but research, are taxi drivers, low paid manual work, predominantly male environments. I I cannot see the outcry from these sectors that matches that from teachers? Although granted I am on MN so that would skew my intake.

FirTree31 HTH

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8287761/Unions-threaten-stage-mass-walkouts-lockdown-easing-risks.html

inews.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-lockdown-labour-unions-lambast-boris-johnson-confusing-message-2848848

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/13/packed-tube-trains-prompt-union-anger-at-johnsons-back-to-work-message-coronavirus-lockdown

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/12/dancing-with-the-devil-safety-concerns-rife-among-people-forced-back-to-work

@MahwaffnaoDave

Whilst we might not have the right to insist they are educated by others at any cost we do need people to do the jobs they are employed to do. I think it’s more of the case that teachers don’t have the right to refuse to educate them and also be paid, hence my saying if the risk is perceived by them to be too great then resign. In my opinion if teachers want basic masks, gloves and an plastic apron then they should be provided but I suspect most would abandon them very quickly (only my opinion there though)