Our children have the right to an education.

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So many posts about whether schools will be safe when they reopen but I’m not seeing this point made. Lots of discussion around the childcare that schools provide and the importance on children socially.

My 11 year old has lost all interest and I can’t get him to do anything significant. We’ve had one zoom social with his teacher and classmates. So pretty much zero learning going on.

We know children are less susceptible and there is some discussion around whether they’re transmitting less. The children of key workers (i.e. the ones more likely to catch and spread it) have been at school the whole time and as far as I know there haven’t been massive outbreaks in schools.

So I think I just want to loudly shout: our children have the right to an education.

Education is the government's responsibility, if people want schools to be reopened then why not lobby the government - you can email your MPs - to consult appropriately with teaching bodies and representatives and ensure that safe working issues are addressed. Blaming individual workers is just a form of scapegoating.

@qweryuiop it is definitely a problem if heads aren’t following guidance/trusted but that’s an actual problem for the unions isn’t it? Not just this blanket “no” it’s appears is happening. It’s never going to be straightforward but ultimately it won’t be any more straightforward in September or even next year I suspect because of the fear generated by the media and the balance of risks being ignored by so many in my opinion.

I think it’s more of the case that teachers don’t have the right to refuse to educate them and also be paid, hence my saying if the risk is perceived by them to be too great then resign

If MN is anything to go by a lot of them are OR already have. That coupled with the existing problems with retention of teachers - and after reading recent teacher-bashing threads on here I'm not surprised so many leave the profession - plus rules on self-isolation plus lack of testing means that few schools will be able to cope anyway. Even if they opened now if there are no reliable tests for C-19 available, then come cold/flu season - given the diverse symptoms - vast numbers of teachers will be continually having to self-isolate.

Education is the government's responsibility,

But it isn't. It's the parents responsibility, the law actually states this. They have outsourced this to school, the default for education, most people do.
When we are in the middle of a pandemic, it's up to parents to step up too.
HTH.

There has been a huge amount of self-righteous moaning about education.

Primary kids don't need to be set work because at that age, they have time to catch up. Plus parents can read with them, do some maths, find a YouTube tutorial etc.

My ds, yr 7, has been set online work from his school. We do it together and that works fine, in fact I think he will go back to school having understood Maths and English more fullly. He goes to a 'Needs Improvement' school in a fairly poor area, so I can't think his secondary is supplying more than the "outstanding" schools having to service 100s of demanding middle class parents.

If your child is 'ebbing away' through lack of education, get on with giving it to them. It just requires patience and effort.

@iamruth

I'm not sure why you think there's a blanket "no", but it is clear that many others think so too.

The unions are dissenting. But that's their job really. Different unions are fighting for the safety of bus drivers, taxi drivers and the workers at ASOS. Teaching unions are fighting for the safety of teachers. Their views are always more dissenting than the average teacher, which can be seen in the numbers of teachers who took part in the last lot of strikes (about 6 years ago now).

Otherwise, I do agree with you. We need to find a way to make it work. The government has changed the message for a reason. It doesn't seem like we have any kind of timescale for when the risk of coronavirus will decrease dramatically. So we probably just have to crack on, prepared to Lockdown again if things get worse again.

@qweryuiop I actually do concede that I’m wrong to say it’s a blanket no, I take that back. It’s just put across like that by some posters saying “it can’t possibly be safe”. Absolutely accept too that it’s their role to dissent to a degree. I think it’s important that the message was always ‘Stay Home - PROTECT THE NHS - save lives’ I.e not stay home - save lives it’s just been controlling the flow into the hospitals etc.

I'm in ireland so our schools will definitely be closed until September. Hard to know what the right thing to do is buy among my circle of friends there are definitely people who would openly admit that they're enjoying being off and are using 'safety concerns' as an excuse to stay off for as long as they are able. I've been working all along so it hasn't affected me but I have to say that now when I hear people say they are not willing to go back I often wonder how many are genuinely afraid and how many are just enjoying being off.

Primary kids don't need to be set work because at that age, they have time to catch up. Plus parents can read with them, do some maths, find a YouTube tutorial etc.

I think this is unrealistic. Not a problem for me, but it just isn''t happening/going to happen in many families. Why do you think people are worried about widening the gap?

I want my kids to go back as their mental health is suffering and they need some routine away from home even if it's curtailed. Having said that, the more I have read from teachers on head and online elsewhere, the more I realise that this may just have to wait.

Yes they have the right to an education but not at any cost. The return needs to be thought out and resourced and I am wrong to want my kids to go back at the earliest opportunity for my convenience when the professionals I trust say they need more time.

Yes children have right to an education.

Unpopular fact;

It's the parent's job to ensure they receive an education that suitable to their age, aptitude and ability as per section 7 of the 1996 education act

So even if they're at school, you should be making sure they are educated to the level that is suitable for them. Find out what interests and motivates them and incorporate it into their learning! Chances are it won't be school at home or anything set by the school.

I haven't read all 34 pages, but I do want to say that the teachers at the school where I work really do want the children back at school, as do the other staff members. But we are all worried. We were short of space already, so how we can manage now I don't know. I used to be a TA, I was regularly coughed on, sneezed on, on two memorable occasions weed on and vomitted on, and have been licked a few times (children are odd). This won't change because of coronavirus. School staff will be covered in bodily fluids regularly, it just happens. It was always gross, now it's frightening. You can tell me that the risk is low but when I am sitting covered in someone else's snot/vomit, quite possibly on my face, I will be scared. I would very much like some sort of protection to be provided before we go back. That doesn't mean I think shop workers, etc shouldn't have it. I just think we need it too.

Mum needs wine, well speak to your employer about organising it, and leave off the attitude, it comes across badly.

Yes, some people will be doing fuck all with their primary school aged kids, but those who complain on MN are generally those who could, rather than placing their child's education solely in the hands of teachers. If you really, really cared about your child's education, you'd get on with delivering it, during what will be a tiny fraction of their 13 years of free education, delivered by underpaid, overworked teachers.

As for the widening gap, it is a chasm which is perpetuated by people being able to afford to live in areas with other middle class people and all sending their kids to the local outstanding school. Or by those who pay for extra lessons so their dc has a chance to get a place at a selective school. The Coronavirus will do nothing to change that disparity in any way (sadly).

@iamruth thanks for an actually pleasant discussion that has made me think (I had been put off quite a bit earlier in this thread by people being rather unpleasant).

Unpopular fact

Oh jeez we have been over this, many times, read the thread.

For what it’s worth, every parent I know is heavily invested in their children’s education and keen to nourish their learning at every opportunity.

However the way in which parental responsibility has been hauled out by some on this thread to justify the poor job some (not all) teachers are doing right now, has been pretty unedifying.

@maddening my employer is the government. Who can't provide PPE to care homes do not sure how they will provide it for us. We have asked for it for when we are on rota (schools are open) but no luck.
And if I sound unpleasant you should try listening to being told it's ok if you get sick or die because children need to be at school.
No one has said no to schools opening. Everyone is saying can we have some planning and evidence that it is safe. That's all.

"The Coronavirus will do nothing to change that disparity in any way (sadly)" No it is not going to get worse with Corona then, ha ha.
For what it's worth, mine are top academically, I read with them etc etc, and still will be sending mine in to school asap.

There needs to be much joined up thinking about what children are being offered by way of support.
I know some teachers who are recording themselves reading stories and giving lessons and sending out work and others who have literally done fuck all.

Mum needs wine - speak to the government then, your head teahher and governors. This has literally only just been announced, guidelines and plans are all in draft, so work with your employers instead of shouting at parents who are not suggesting that it is OK for you to die.

Personally quite happy to have ds educated from home, am just frustrated we are seeing f all in the way of education, I think if there had been more proactive virtual teaching then there would be less calls for schools to reopen, perhaps just extend the keyworkers scheme to those whose employers require them on site.

I’m not opposed to going back, I just think the way it’s been proposed is wrong. The way it’s been set out in NI is much better in my opinion, opening it up first to a wider set of ‘key’ workers. Then PART TIME for priority year groups. Then part time for all. That way everyone can fit. The current plan for England is everyone, full time, in groups of 15. Gavin Williamson was asked about that in parliament today and he didn’t answer, where is the same coming from for twice the amount of classrooms to split every class in two?

I would be far happier about returning if it was made clear schools will return after 1st June providing new infections are under a certain number (say 1000), for more children of workers, then part time for some years and eventually part time for all. Rather than what seems to be ‘Get everyone in QUICK’.

I think if there had been more proactive virtual teaching then there would be less calls for schools to reopen

I totally agree with this.

The haste with which certain schools decided they couldn’t use Zoom for example feels like a missed opportunity.

@hopelesschildren I wasn't saying you don't do all those things with your kids. I work with (and live in a community with) kids whose parents did nothing with them before Coronavirus, will do nothing with them during lockdown and nothing after. I am employed to support these child with the hand they've been dealt in life and to help them learn.

My point was that the kind of people who are complaining about a very temporary lack of state led education in their child's life could be filling the void themselves. And that the massive gap that exists will still be huge after all this is over.

The people complaining about education aren't concerned with deprived kids, they are worried about their own kids. Which is entirely something they remedy.

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A picture of kids in France who have gone back. All sitting in chalk squares on the playground, one child to each square.
If you are worried about your child’s mental health, and saying how they e gone back elsewhere, perhaps take a look. Would your child have improved mental health doing this? I’m not saying we would do this in this country. In fact, I can’t see a single person thinking it’s a good idea, but it’s one way one country have managed a return to school while maintaining social distance. We need to be realistic.

And I still don’t understand why one person from a household is allowed to meet up with one person from another household, but as soon as you take along a child that is two people, so you could be fined. The reason given is that kids don’t understand social distancing. But it’s ok for them to meet that same child plus 13 others in school because they don’t carry the virus so social distancing doesn’t matter. I don’t buy the idea that if one adult and one child from one household meet one other adult and child from another household, the adults will suddenly find it impossible to socially distance. And it doesn’t matter if the kids mix, does it, because they don’t suffer anyway and can’t really transmit the virus which is why they are going back to school.
Which one is it, because it can’t be both.

@LaurieMarlow it's been the law since the 1940s. Glad to know you know lots of people who are invested in their kid's education.

And yes it does get trotted out, I home ed and have done for years, yet for years have heard "Don't you need permission to do that?", or "But how can you possibly teach them" or "But isn't that the school's job?" and now it's coming round en-masse because society is having to familiarise itself with education laws and fast.

It is the government's job to ensure free schooling is available to everyone. Which they are still doing and have been adapting to provide, despite the current crisis, if it's not what's best for your kids then it is your responsibility to find out what works for your kids and follow it through. No-one else's.

So yes children have the right to an education and it's the parent's job, not the state's, to ensure they receive it. The only obligation the state has is to make sure free schooling is available.