Our children have the right to an education.

[NameChange738676756]

So many posts about whether schools will be safe when they reopen but I’m not seeing this point made. Lots of discussion around the childcare that schools provide and the importance on children socially.

My 11 year old has lost all interest and I can’t get him to do anything significant. We’ve had one zoom social with his teacher and classmates. So pretty much zero learning going on.

We know children are less susceptible and there is some discussion around whether they’re transmitting less. The children of key workers (i.e. the ones more likely to catch and spread it) have been at school the whole time and as far as I know there haven’t been massive outbreaks in schools.

So I think I just want to loudly shout: our children have the right to an education.

I totally think that we don’t know namenic. I very much hope that they don’t obviously but we’ll only know the answer in a couple of years as a minimum.

They do BUT, as their PARENT you have the greatest responsibility to KEEP THEM SAFE!

If your child has no interest in learning in a home environment right now what makes you think they will be bothered when they go back to a classroom?

As an adult AND a parent perhaps look at yourself and how you've handled this situation before stomping your feet and demanding schools be opened. Education and a love for it starts at home which it sounds you don't want to take any responsibility for.

Also IF the schools were all re-opened and suddenly MORE children started dying from COVD-19 I bet by the pricking of my thumbs the OP would be on here again complaining about why did they open schools so soon?

To clarify a few points on education law.

1. Parents have a duty to secure an appropriate education, they can do that by securing a school provision or an alternative provision (homeschooling if they wish).

1. Once they have elected a state school place within an LA then there is a duty of an LA to provide a suitable educational provision under s. 19 Education Act 1996 which imposes a duty on local authorities to make arrangements to provide "suitable education at school, or otherwise than at school, for those children of compulsory school age who, by reason of illness, exclusion from school or otherwise, may not for any period receive suitable education. This normally applies to SEN, my children now receive an alternative education under this section. I have had to give up work to facilitate this.

It is therefore not as simple as saying that the duty of providing suitable provision falls upon parents.

If schools are not going to reopen then there is a duty to provide provision, unless this section has been repealled (I do not believe it has). It is surprising that some educators are shirking this responsibility. Yes the national curriculum has been suspended for now. But this cannot go on indefinitely.

Either schools should reopen on the basis that the work can not be done at home (of teachers) with safety measures in place or the teachers should be accountable to provide a suitable alternative. This situation is not tenable given the fact that there is no obvious end to the risk.

@iamruth

I'm interested that that is the only thing you took from a meeting in which the chief dfe scientific adviser has admitted that all the plans to open schools have been made centrally and not by the dfe and have had no involvement from the chief scientific adviser for the dfe... and how it's been mentioned now that the school guidence is a "draft" as it's not yet been accurately discussed, and how as far as hes aware there has been very little modeling done on the risk of opening schools, its wider impact or any science to support the proposals as of yet....

My dc have positively thrives being out of school so much so none of them will be back and will all be home educated now it’s been a real eye opener

when I say reopen I mean for all children to access, clearly they are open now for key workers and some vulnerable children.

@iamruth we are making the effort. Don't expect praise but I also don't expect to be treated like a price of disposable shit. I want to go back I want to go back I want to go back. But I want to be safe. We are trying to find a way to make it work at our school. But bus drivers won't bring them in so not sure what going to do about that. And just having 2 year groups in the fire drill line will be 720m long. If we have the whole school in it will be 3.36km. And how do give an epidemic from 2m away ?

@mumsneedwine

One way or another this will pass, in the meantime let's not lose sight of the fact that far more unites than divides us. We all want the same thing at the end of the day, we just disagree I think on the best way to get there. Stay safe and may tomorrow bring good news to us all :)

Wednesday May 13th

DfE chief scientific adviser admits he hasn’t assessed school reopening guidance
John Dickens
0
Wed 13th May 2020, 16.57
DfE chief scientific adviser admits he hasn't assessed school reopening guidance
The Department for Education’s chief scientific adviser admitted he has not assessed whether guidance on reopening schools is effective, adding the current advice is “draft” and “will be developed”.

Appearing in front of the Parliamentary science and technology committee today, Osama Rahman also admitted the DfE had done no modelling on the impact on transmission rates of starting to reopen schools after the May half term break.

During a hearing that left some MPs visibly bemused, Rahman also suggested the government guidance issued yesterday on safety is a “draft”, and will be reissued after further consultation with Public Health England.

He also said the decision to reopen schools was made by cabinet, not the DfE.

Asked about the transmission rate among children during the hearing, Rahman said the evidence is mixed, and there’s a “low degree of confidence in evidence they might transmit it less”.

Monaghan responded: “We’re putting together hundreds of potential vectors that can then go and transmit. Is that correct?”

Rahman said: “Possibly, depending on school sizes.” (See video of exchange below)

‘The department has not done any modelling’
Education committee chair Robert Halfon asked what scientific evidence base underpinned the decision to reopen schools to pupils in reception, year 1 and year 6, and what modelling had been done.

“The department has not done any modelling,” Rahman replied. “One of the SAGE groups has done various bits of modelling for different scenarios on what years you can bring back. My understanding is those will be published in due course.”

Halfon responded that “surely you must have scientific evidence the base underpinning the department’s decision?”, to which Rahman responded: “That was a cabinet decision following advice from SAGE.”

When asked how he was sure the cabinet had taken the evidence into account, Rahman said that advice goes to the secretary of state who then expresses his view to cabinet.

“The secretary of state is informed of what the science says, as are policy officials in the department.”

DfE guidance for schools is “first draft”
Rahman also admitted he had made no assessment on how effectively actions proposed by the government for schools to reopen safely can be implemented.

He said the department is working with Public Health England on the “first draft advice” and will be “discussing this further with PHE and others … in terms of feedback”.

He later said he would expect the guidance published yesterday to “be developed”, adding: “Certainly, my role will be to continue, if we have updated consensus on the science from SAGE, will be to ensure that that feeds into the guidance.”

When pressed that any reissuing of guidance gives schools “very little time” to prepare to open, Rahman said: “The June 1 opening is dependent on a bunch of conditions being met as I think the prime minister announced. So schools have been asked to prepare for that opening.”

Adviser didn’t attend SAGE’s PPE meetings
Teachers have raised concerns about government guidance stating in most situations they aren’t required to wear personal protective equipment.

When asked what evidence the department has considered in relation to this, Rahman said: “I don’t know, I don’t think I was necessary at the PPE meeting. You’ll have to ask SAGE that.”

Greg Clark, chair of the committee, replied: “But you’re the chief scientific adviser to the DfE.”

Rahman responded: “I am. I’m not sure when they discussed PPE, it was a general PPE discussion.”

He had earlier said that he gets the SAGE minutes and papers for meetings he attends, which are used to brief the department’s operational centre and minister’s offices.

Williamson earlier told the Commons he was “more than happy” to share “all the advice that we have received” from SAGE, the government’s scientific advisory group.

He also revealed he’d asked scientific advisers “to give briefings for the sector” to “help them understand” the decision.

“When you have medical and scientific advice that is saying that it is the right time to start bringing schools back in a phased and controlled manner, it seems only the right thing to do so, and the only responsible thing to do,” he told MPs.

He did not give a date for when any advice would be published.

schoolsweek.co.uk/dfe-chief-scientific-adviser-admits-he-hasnt-assessed-school-reopening-guidance/

Interesting spell check change there ! Not epidemic, but epipen

@LittleFoxKit well given everyone was happy to believe the government that they should stop working with no protest then why is now different. No one can explain to me why the science From central government was ok then but not now. As I’ve said before it’s ok for lots of people to take risks to keep us eating, with water and electric etc and even deliver your amazon parcels but not for anyone to get their elected choice of education in a school. Maybe we should all use candlelight because it’s not safe for the engineers and we need to wait for a vaccine. The news is that it is less safe for everyone than before but that applies to the whole world not just England’s teachers and children

@Iwalkinmyclothing with you all the way (especially with the 🍷). Working together will get us to a good place. Spanish flu eventually went as will this.

This is what the Irish government are saying. Varadkar is a doctor btw

www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/re-opening-schools-among-the-safest-things-in-next-few-months-taoiseach-says-1.4252469?mode=amp

@iamruth do one little problem for you to since for us. About the epipen. Student needs to have it administered but I can't go within 2m. Do I a) watch child die b) risk my life to administer.

And can you guarantee me that all my students will respect the rules, as I'm sure the gas and electric people can. Because teens are not adults and think some things are funny. When they are not.

Children deserve an education that we are paying teachers to provide, don't care whether it is on site or virtually but do something, I am working full time, my husband is working full time, I am trying to do the teachers job too, but hang on, they are still being paid and due to the wonders of technology my sons teacher (no kids of his own, V small school with V few key worker children duties - ie in occasionally) could do much more than he currently is. Meanwhile I am trying to do that alongside my full time job. Happy to provide the childcare - teachers are paid to teach.

@mumsneedwine the thing is it’s as safe as it’s going to be, the R is below one. It’s much safer for you to teach 15 children than it is for me to go into that hospital and people’s homes each day or my partner to make arrests and interview suspects etc but you want us to protect your rights to health and uphold the law? The government says it’s safe enough for you to now resume your job so go back and do it. Wear a mask if it makes you feel better.

@iamruth I do not face a mask !!' Do you get given PPE by your employer ?

@mumsneedwine I dunno, do you want me to withhold your oxygen because I don’t want to go too close?

@iamruth - maybe because they looked at other countries who had implemented the lockdown measures early?

It is worth waiting to see the long-term figures but I don’t think it is likely that UK will be shown to have done well compared to other places.

iamruth
They only closed schools after ignoring the science for a long time, and ultimately had no choice as many schools were already closing due to staff shortages and pupils were being kept at home. It was as much a appeasement as it was motivated by any scientific knowledge. If you listen back to Johnson's speeches around that time you will hearing him talking about behavioural science a lot more then medical science.

As someone who is involved with science I'm not convinced he has followed correct scientific advice for the right reasons at any point in his dealing of CV. The huge death rate compared to other countries and our still shockingly high number of new daily cases would support that.

If you look at the science and the research conducted by independent scientists which have no vested interest it's quite clear where Johnson has manipulated the "science" to fit his intentions and narratives during the entirety of this disaster of epidemic response.

@iamruth does your husband want to lend me his spot hood and taser. Because I'll go back then no problem.

@mumsneedwine

...and just sending the young ones back is absolutely fine. They will have a lovely time spreading the germs around and taking them home. As long as you don't expect other adults to risk their lives.

What is the alternative? Are you suggesting that we just don't educate/provide childcare for primary age and below until there's an effective vaccine, which could be months and months? It is not only teachers but childminders and nursery staff who face this issue...and they're going back fairly soon. Unfortunately, those working with this age group are ultimately going to have to accept the increased risk or change jobs.

@mumsneedwine nope, standard issue result mask for non aerosol generating procedures, same protection as one you can make at home

@no spot hood or taser he’s not a response cop

I suspect this return of up to roughly half the primary school population is a bit of an unscientific epidemiological experiment. If it helps to generate a second wave, the government would rather the NHS handled it over the summer than waiting for September and dealing with it in autumn/winter alongside the custmaery waves of seasonal flu, norovirus etc.

Call me cynical. Let's offer primary teachers starter homes at discount if they survive!