Our children have the right to an education.

[NameChange738676756]

So many posts about whether schools will be safe when they reopen but I’m not seeing this point made. Lots of discussion around the childcare that schools provide and the importance on children socially.

My 11 year old has lost all interest and I can’t get him to do anything significant. We’ve had one zoom social with his teacher and classmates. So pretty much zero learning going on.

We know children are less susceptible and there is some discussion around whether they’re transmitting less. The children of key workers (i.e. the ones more likely to catch and spread it) have been at school the whole time and as far as I know there haven’t been massive outbreaks in schools.

So I think I just want to loudly shout: our children have the right to an education.

This means that even among the most vulnerable, the risk is still low. In the population as a whole, absent relevant medical vulnerability, people are highly unlikely to suffer from this, ie if they catch it, they will not become seriously ill.

We don't have the data to say this yet. With proper testing we will, but we don't have the information yet.

If we don't start trying to get things back up and running what is the alternative?

Gradually getting things back up and running with proper tracking, testing, tracing and isolation systems.

"I know my opinion isn't popular, but come on, whoever heard of healthy people being put in quarantine and wearing gloves and masks? What a joke!"

If we had encouraged everyone to wear gloves and masks when out of the house, then we would have minimised the effects of the virus.
Both Japan and South Korea had earlier cases than us.
Japan - 15968 cases - 657 deaths
South Korea - 10962 cases - 259 deaths
Both countries make mask wearing compulsory in almost all public areas.
If the schools reopen, then it will be the teachers who are most at risk of dying, and it will result in more deaths of children, who although at less risk of contracting a fullblown version of the virus, will be carrying it and passing it on to others, even if they are not exhibiting symptoms.
I have a mate who is a teacher and he is terrified of going back. He correctly points out that social distancing in a classroom will be virtually impossible.
We do not yet have a vaccine, we have nearly 4000 new cases every day and the government is not giving us the statistics for recovered victims.

When were told teachers have to be accountable to parents who cant educate their own kids and havent been in a classroom since the 90s... Im out.

Teachers using Teams experience massive scrutiny by SLT. My SLT can listen to any one of my lessons I give online and see what work I have set and what I have or haven't marked. If you don't like what your school is doing, complain

Yes, YOUR school are doing that. What about those NOT giving online lessons, or setting or marking work? Where's the oversight there? Where's the minimum standard or expectation.

Posters on this very thread have said they have complained and got nowhere (surprise).

Teachers on this thread have made it quite clear that what they want is to understand the risk properly

You've had 7 weeks. Exactly the same amount of time as everyone else and teachers are the only ones who say they can't return to work.

They want the financial support to be able to help them minimize the risk. That might include PPE

No, teachers on this thread have said they'll return on 1 June with PPE. Others have said they're worried about the spread, so don't want to return then irrespective of PPE.

You can't have it all ways.

the R in the community is not published but is certainly far lower.

Nobody has any clue what the R in the community is now, and they won't know in 2.5 week's time because people aren't being tested.

I don’t get the bit about no notice? Since lockdown started surely schools have been planning for how to return safely -7 weeks ago? I would assume that the senior teachers have been working on various plans since then, led by the local authorities? It doesn't have to come from government. Most industries have just had to re plan the entire way they work overnight and haven had government guidance on how to do it, supermarkets re worked the whole way they worked same for lots of healthcare and many many small businesses

Absolute safety cannot be guaranteed and it never could. Leaving aside shielding children and teachers (who the government guidance says to not come back) for the vast majority of primary school kids the risk of lockdown outweigh the risk of covid 19 in terms of health Physical and mental and social development. Therefore as a society we need to find a solution because lockdown is harming the nations children. Children’s emotional well-being and futures are currently being sacrificed for the health of the elderly and vulnerable (on a population level)

Teachers do themselves a disservice saying that parents can teach at home and that school at present is “just childcare”. School is so much more than academic education, it is were children socialise outside the family home to become independent, where they learn and grow physically and mentally to become healthy rounded individuals. Childcare and the emotional nurturing of children is so so important. Also for the poorest school is also where they are fed, for those with EHCPs it’s often where they receive speech therapy and physio therapy, it’s a place where children can meet with adults to let them know about abuse at home, schools often provide spiritual support as well. Academic education is one tiny bit. Without all of the above so many children are suffering.

Schools will have to be different but life for the foreseeable future is going to be different, it might be a TA taking there class they might only get to go in two days a week, they may be on a building not designed to be a school, they might have reduced toys, or only those that are easy to clean. There might be no food tech or science in labs as this would be moving about or they might not get to see all their friends. Maybe PE will have to be done in school clothes so people don’t have to change in close proximity. None of that is great but for so many children simply being in the same room with 15 other kids with a kind engaged adult they can confide in and getting to interact with their peer, maybe do a few educational activities, run about outside and eat a hot meal is so so much better than what they have much now, and it’s worth the small risk to them to do that.

The government would save billions getting rid of compulsory education.

It’s not like they’ll will be enough jobs to go round due to offshoring and automation.

No, they've not been planning because they had no guidance as to how, what the rules would be etc.

We've been working bloody hard, making resources, videos, setting and marking work, being in school on rota (some of us in the holidays too), chasing kids and parents where we have had no contact and doing long term stuff for September etc.

But until Monday schools literally had no idea what they'd be asked to do.

Just shows what some people know.

Local authorities don't run most schools nowadays!!

But what about any of this will be different in September? Or January? Or any other arbitrary date? By that line of thinking, schools will never reopen and teachers should all be made redundant. Is that what you're advocating?

But schools won't be fully open, will they, either now or in September or January? It is hoped that the R will be down, more science will have been done and more evidence on transmission will have emerged including potential medications and treatments and we will have worked out a way of social distancing and combining home schooling and education in school.

The Government can make teachers redundant, why not? Get in new blood when the schools re-open given the shit job we're doing, eh?

So, my son’s teacher is essentially checked out and I have no rights to whatsoever to have that service provided by someone else or even a courtesy email from someone to let me know that service will not be forthcoming?

Is that what I said? That you had no rights to have your child provided with some form of education and information about that? Or did I actually say you had no right whatsoever to know what may or may not be going on for an individual teacher?

As for cleaning equipment in schools.For photocopiers,you wash your hands before using it so n need to clean.
Put your mobile in a plastic bag ,take it out when you go home.
Yes give the children wipes to clean pencils pens each day,then they could do the same next time d&v hits the school.
Toys are trickier for the young children but lots can be learnt without and at least you can do some outdoor lessons and in June.
It won't be normal but if school set out what they can do the parents will choose whether their children take the risk.
Older children can wear masks,they will need to if they use school transport and in big cities may need to start later so they miss rush hour so public transport isn't over whelmed.

Wow you lot have a lot of free time. Thought everyone was working from home not being paid to be on Mumsnet. Right next lesson. Haven't read any of this because, you know, I'm working. Hope you've all found Oak National lessons helpful.
And a washable mask would be fine. I'd need to change the PPE between each class to prevent infection so will need at least 5 a day.
Be back after next lesson. Hope you're all not working too hard.

We all need to get back to work. This virus isn't going anywhere.

Teachers who don't feel they can safety return to work (for example, due to underlying health conditions) should be supported onto long-term sick pay, like all others who can't work due to medical reasons. Then schools will be able to afford appropriate cover/replacements. Just like parents who can't work due to childcare commitments have to take unpaid leave.

Here you go. No more need to moan about lessons at least

www.thenational.academy/

Most industries have just had to re plan the entire way they work overnight and haven had government guidance on how to do it, supermarkets re worked the whole way they worked same for lots of healthcare and many many small businesses

But there is as yet no date for for some industries to re-open. Some industries can adapt, others can't. Schools and businesses aren't comparable.

Teachers who don't feel they can safety return to work (for example, due to underlying health conditions) should be supported onto long-term sick pay, like all others who can't work due to medical reasons.

Well said. Staff with serious underlying conditions will probably never return to work, as Covid is here to stay. They need to be early-retired and replaced with younger/healthier staff who can actually do the job under the new "normal" conditions.

I'm assuming all your offices are now Covid compliant as they have had 7 weeks too

No?

Schools have indeed been working out strategies for reopening over the last few weeks. Strangely, for people with actual experience of schools and children, the model of all the three youngest groups plus the oldest all starting at once, with the intention of every child back within two weeks, was not widely considered.

I don’t get the bit about no notice? Since lockdown started surely schools have been planning for how to return safely -7 weeks ago? I would assume that the senior teachers have been working on various plans since then, led by the local authorities? It doesn't have to come from government

How can we plan for something we can't see? Or how can we plan for something when we don't know what the Government will demand of us? Without the resources to do it? Or how can we plan for 15 in a class when that means double the staff and double the classrooms? We can't magic space out of thin air! Or plan for 2 metres social distancing in schools where corridors are less than 2 metres wide? We don't have soap in some schools, let alone hand sanitizer or anything else that might make being in school a little more palatable and safer for all.

You have no understanding whatsoever of what schools are facing to even put a basic level of safety in place. And even if you did, there's no budget for it.

@guyfawkesday

But they must have known that they would be expected to reopen right without being told explicitly surely everyone knows that lockdown would t last forever. And the plan from government would be for the schools to open in some fashion so plans for different eventualities would be devised? I’m not saying this isn’t hard work or it dosent take time but that is what nearly every industry in the world has had to do.....

Ok so not LEAs them, Academy trusts or whomever runs the school.

My daughter is at a small independent and they have been making plans on their own and are now swinging one of those plans into action (and before I get told it’s easier as there’s more physical space they already have fewer clasrooms than classes!)

I would agrue that actually children are getting an education at present, albeit not the standard style we are used to but instead are learning about the world, learning how to learn independently and with opportunaties to communicate with peers using technology.

My 10.5 year old DDs school initially used google to undertake lessons and tasks but have now moved to See Saw on which daily and weekly tasks are posted with audio and video instructions, a range of topics and a mix of all the traditional subjects. They post their work and the teachers review and comment on them. They can post responses as text, audio or video and can work at a pace that suits them and their parents.

I'm still working full time from home and so I review the upcoming day at about 8.30 with her, check in at a 'coffee break' time, lunctime and then at the end of the day. We go through difficult concepts together, or, she messages the teacher for advice.

She has learnt to take appropriate breaks, to do tasks that need concentration when she is most alert and to manage her self really well.

I feel this has actually set her up well for when she transitions to high school in Sept 2021 and she has skills that she can use in further and higher education. She is not being spoonfed, or distracted by others and still has plenty of exercise on her trampoline, doing Joe Wicks and other YouTube exercises plus walking the dog with her dad once a day.

Having time to be bored is also helping her to be creative and she's playing with writing songs, doing little videos and learning who she is...

She's not a genius or a particuarly patient child either (awaiting ASD/ADHD diagnosis) but she is learning to adapt which is a valuable life skill!

I love how everyone thinks they know how schools run.

I'm not telling supermarkets what to do, yet here's a bunch of jumped up people shouting at people who do the job and know how schools run....

You. Don't. Do. The. Job.
You. Don't. Understand. What. It. Entails.

I'm not telling you how to do your job so stop bloody telling schools how to do theirs.

I'd love nothing more than to have a full classroom.

But shitting hell the logistics of trying to get a school running safely, staffed etc is not easy.

I think that the risk feels very small if you haven't come across the virus. But some of us have. A former colleague of my DH has died of it, as has a neighbour. My DH has to call an ambulance out because my airways were blocked.

At the moment it feels like I'm living in a parallel universe, with the majority of people not taking in how serious this virus can be.

The emphasis on dying has been OTT, because for the majority of us the risk of that happening is very small, but it can make some of us very unwell. Teachers are not just worried about themselves; some of them have vulnerable family members to worry about (like I do), or are worrying about unwittingly passing the virus on to a vulnerable person at Tescos.

We're also worrying about the transmission rate becoming higher and us being pushed into another lockdown.

Or did I actually say you had no right whatsoever to know what may or may not be going on for an individual teacher?

I didn’t ask for that

Just not, radio silence, y’know.