Boris is sending his subjects back out to war as a social experiment

[Monty27]

I'm still not too keen on getting cov19 .
Anyone?
Social experiment might be slightly dramatic but more people will become infected and I think he's putting the economy before us. 😔

Don't forget that the virus has been in the UK since at least December. It originated in China and people were travelling in and out of China for weeks before China imposed lockdown. The virus would have been brought into the country and started spreading before Christmas. Many people will have had it before we even named it.

So we lived with it for months before lockdown was imposed. Roughly 0.1% of the UK population have died with CV19 and 0.6% have tested positive.

The numbers are tiny. The chances of contracting it and needing to seek hospital treatment are very small. Most people who've had it recovered themselves and many won't even have realised they had it.

We've recently commemorated VE Day which I found slightly strange - people likened the war effort (everyone keeping calm and carrying on) to today's attitude of stop normal life and hide.

Both myself and DH have worked throughout. As have many people. Why should we all work and pay our (probably going to increase) taxes to fund people who don't want to work because they quite like being paid to stay home.

The country needs to get back to work or face huge unemployment issues, increased social problems, a generation who've lost out on education and a massive tax increase that will affect the lowest paid as well as the highest.

Given the increased traffic yesterday and higher numbers on public transport together with the numbers of people getting out to meet people 2m apart and play golf etc. I think we can assume the silent majority are happy to be moving out of lockdown and want to get back to normal. As usual it's the minority who shout and protest loudest and think they reflect society.

I never realised so many Mumsnet readers were selfish and right wing, and cared so little about the vulnerable who might die from this. The lack of understanding is breathtaking.

I am one of the extremely vulnerable and I still want out and back to normal, I always have and I'm happy to risk it.

As far as caring about anyone else, why would anyone apart from my immediate family give a toss about me? They don't know me.

We lived with it for months before lockdown , yes
So what?

, during that time it began to explode to the point that hospitals had to be reconfigured, many procedures cancelled , doctors and nurses brought back from retirement just to get through a peak that was squashed by the lockdown

Just because only a few people have got it shows exactly how exponential growth from a very small number of initial cases followed by lockdown affects the spread of the virus

If we had not had lockdown there would be many thousands more dead by now
We hit almost 1000 a day dying at the peak ( which is only a peak because of the lockdown)
Without lockdown
a week later it would have been 2000 a day
If we are 7 weeks into lockdown , then 64,000 people dying every day from the virus ?

We would be getting close to starting to come out the other side , we might be at or beyond the uncontrolled peak, but can you imagine how this country would be with 64000 , or even 32,000 deaths in one day? More than we have had over the whole epidemic in just 1 day?

What would the hospitals look like ? The morgues? Your family? Do you think shops would still be functioning, fully stocked ?

The very fact that so few people have been affected is showing how well everyone has done, and what the dangers still are

Monty27 the economy is your income, your home, your food and your water/electric supply. You better hope someone is thinking about it.

Do people really think all that just 'happens'? and how it is possible to live in the UK and not have had this explained to them 50 tijmes already?

OP, are you a public sector worker per chance?

Eyewhisker yep

@Bobleywobley I'm left wing. I do care about the vulnerable, but I care about my own DS more and I need to go back to work for him. Human nature. And I'm not fake, I've been on MN for ages.

it is coming from somewhere you are reliant on someone else going outside while you shelter inside.

The delivery person is safer whilst everyone stays home, they have clear rds and less people to come into contact with, take that away and you’ll possibly then infect the people that are delivering - then what?

People who are government employees don’t want to work normally but have their money coming in regardless

Are you suggesting that people WFH or working in an environment where working practices have changed because of Covid shouldn't be getting paid. @BubblesBuddy?

Seems a bit harsh. I'm in regular contact with DWP, NHS (community MH service) and HMCTS, they're still working and doing their utmost to deliver a service as close to normal as possible. Friends in the Home Office, HMRC, MOD and Environment Agency are all still working.

DeeCeeCherry "If BJ had implemented full lockdown..." if he had you'd be dead. I assume you mean full lockdown aside from those workers who bring you electricity, water, gas, food and medicine I imagine you could live with them losing a loved one right?

"As it is I'm wondering if there may be a 2nd spike" almost certainly and planned for from the beginning if you had been paying attention. Hopefully not too large.

"herd immunity policy via stealth" hardly by stealth. Herd immunity has been a factor from the beginning. You really didn't know about any of this stuff?

I think we can assume the silent majority are happy to be moving out of lockdown and want to get back to normal.

It’s not a choice they make - they’ve been ordered back to work, regardless of whether they can get their safely or have children at home without care

I never realised so many Mumsnet readers were selfish and right wing, and cared so little about the vulnerable who might die from this. The lack of understanding is breathtaking.

I am kinda flabbergasted by this position that only Covid deaths matter.

What about all the people not getting diagnosed, treated? What about the people dying because of lockdown? What about the huge implications of depression for health and mortality?

I see the OP hasn't returned to explain how she is managing to live without being a part of the economy that she is so contemptuous of. I'm presuming: no income; no benefits; not using electricity, water from a tap, gas; not buying any food; not having bins collected...

Or are you perfectly happy for all the people who facilitate these services to continue to work as long as you're safe?

Some people do live off grid and grow their own food? Not many admittedly. Perhaps the OP is one of them.

The furlough and grant scheme is very generous. We now need the economy to pick back up before it crumbles.

Thank God. This is the first post I have seen on this subject where the majority of posters are taking a sensible view.
No easing of lockdown = guaranteed economic fucking catastrophe like we have never seen. Mass unemployment, government receipts from all taxes hugely down, no money to pay public sector wages, our children saddled with repaying our debt forever.
Screw that.

I'm happy for others to go out and start their regular pre-pandemic lives again, I might wait out a bit.

People who are government employees don't want to work normally but have their money coming in regardless.

Bit confused about this statement? I am a civil servant, and if anything people are working harder now to keep services going. Job retention scheme, processing UC claims etc. Lots of overtime, redeployment of staff to different areas to cover COVID work. Yes some civil servants are on special leave if they need to be shielded and can't work from home, but that is part and parcel of working for CS. Pay isn't fantastic (haven't had a significant pay rise for many years and doubt its on the cards for a long time now) but we have security in times like this. Swings and roundabouts.

• I am kinda flabbergasted by this position that only Covid deaths matter.

What about all the people not getting diagnosed, treated? What about the people dying because of lockdown? What about the huge implications of depression for health and mortality?*

Agreed and access to other medical treatment where I am is a shambles because of this. I've lived with, at times, unbearable pain over the last 2 months because of my condition, the department at the hospital I can turn to? Shut down and has was before the lockdown. The most my GP can do is give me yet more painkillers.

It's no exaggeration to say that after weeks with little to no sleep, in agony and eating painkillers like smarties, it was tempting to take the whole lot, but I couldn't do that to my wife and boys.

But only COVID-19 matters.

Herd immunity was considered in the very beginning but you lot clearly have not been paying attention since , as someone worked out what that would mean for the number of people killed and the disastrous economic impact that would have created.

How on earth do you think we can get to the herd immunity without a vaccine in a way that doesn't mean endless additional lockdowns to prevent overwhelming the NHS? Hint, you can't.

Your options are accept future lockdown, or people dead in the hospital corridors, or a completely new idea of normal which is not going back to normal

Fortunately in the real world , there may be enough people following the guidelines to keep others from triggering disaster

As much as I like lockdown, we cant realistically stay like this for the rest of the year and into the next....because covid is still going to be around.

I am very happy for anybody that wants to stay at home, to stay at home.

But don't expect to be paid forever if you cannot work from home

And don't force everyone else to assess the risk in the same way as you.

Liberty is important.

I didn’t necessarily mean civil servants. There seem to be all sorts of local government services that are withdrawn and people are not working on public facing roles but are still getting full pay. So what are they doing? Likewise, all those operations and outpatients appointments that are queuing up - apparently 7 million of them. It’s not true to say that all these NHS staff are working on Covid wards, so what are they doing on full pay? Many teachers are providing lessons and working but others seem to be doing the minimum. How many staff who are publicly paid are not working to normal levels but are receiving full pay whilst others, like the self employed, have nothing? Have public employees been furloughed?

@BubblesBuddy everybody that I know who is a public servant is still working. My teacher friend who normally works part time is working even more hours for no extra pay. And many, many people have been deployed to Covid related projects such as the Nightingale hospitals. From my perspective anyway it feels like we are spread quite thinly atm.