Boris is sending his subjects back out to war as a social experiment

[Monty27]

I'm still not too keen on getting cov19 .
Anyone?
Social experiment might be slightly dramatic but more people will become infected and I think he's putting the economy before us. 😔

I think we should have given it another 3 weeks before reviewing lockdown. I think more than 600 deaths a day is way too high to consider relaxing things.

Bubblesbuddy I’m finding that government employees have never worked harder, I’m dealing with people working 7 days a week to keep services running, they are not on overtime and totally exhausted.

We all stay home we starve. What's your solution?

Is your solution that others go out to take the risk and you stay home?

@zen1 there aren't 600 deaths a day. They are just newly reported deaths. Most of them actually happened in April.

@Waxonwaxoff0
Where can we find how many deaths happened today? Or can’t we? And is there site that back dates the deaths to show how many died on each day in the past?

Get a fucking grip honestly.

We need to get on with things. We can't afford to stay at home sitting on our arses for any longer.
There's no magical money trees you know.

@Freddiefox on the NHS England website, they have daily reported hospital deaths. There were just 44 reported on 11th May. The numbers tend to go up over time as more deaths are recorded but it shows that April 8th was the peak and has been declining ever since. Worth bearing in mind though that it is hospital deaths only, so it doesn't include care home deaths for example.

I left my grip at the hospital with my brother who is there dying. God there are some cunts on MN.

Yes we need an economy. Doesn’t mean peoples lives don’t fucking matter.

Also it is England only, not Scotland, Wales or NI.

@Waxonwaxoff0 don’t know where you’re getting your numbers from, the death toll for yesterday was over 600.

Given the saving the government will make on pensions and hospital treatments for the elderly and vulnerable I think the economy would survive slightly longer.
Furlong till October is a smoke screen, most business will be open well before that. Those who don't reopen their employees will struggle on 60% and find other work. Everyone shouting about the economy, the majority will bounce back it is not like the 2008 crash.
I hope business ensure the correct safeguards are made to protect staff.

OP you do realise that other counties have relaxed their restrictions far more than the U.K. is doing right now.
People will die if there is a huge global recession.

Also agree with PP that the reason many of us can observe lockdown is because of, often low paid workers, like delivery drivers, supermarket staff, warehouse workers going to work so we can stay at home.

PS I had to send my grip to hospital because I can’t go there myself because he has covid.

Fuck everyone who thinks that this disease just doesn’t matter because it’s inconvenient.

@hollyhopscotch no it wasn't, it was newly recorded deaths. There is a difference.

Doesn’t mean peoples lives don’t fucking matter.

Starvation and unclean water will kill people pretty quickly. Come winter, if gas and electric isn't maintained, the cold will kill more.

A civilised society requires work. Physical work.

@Waxonwaxoff0 are all the countries on Worldometers reporting deaths retrospectively because the UK number is still much higher than everyone else except the US? The BBC reported yesterday that there are still 11,000 people in hospital with Covid.

Hingeandbracket talk about hysterical. Unless you are in a vulnerable group where the government recommends you shield, your chances of dying from covid-19 are about the same as dying commuting to London from Swindon every day. Its not impossible, but most rational people put it into perspective, and conduct their figurative commute with caution with risks managed but not eliminated as this is impossible.

My fear is that the fear itself will prove far more deadly than the outbreak. Excess deaths due to fear of hospitals, cancer treatments being sidelines, depression both personally and economically are very real side effects here. The economy is not some abstract concept, it is real, it allows us to be prosperous.

Now is not the time for recklessness, but it is perhaps the time for some cautious bravery to stave off a recession that will make 2008 look like slight hiccup.

@zen1 I'm not entirely sure but there may be a difference in how countries are reporting deaths. The big one is people who died FROM Covid and people who died WITH Covid. Countries may report that differently.

Yes, I’ve noticed reporters are careful to say “with Covid” instead of “of Covid” when reporting deaths.

You should be more worried about the reinfection rates in populations that are "virgin" to the virus. You can get immunity either through a vaccine, which may never come, or through catching the virus. I think vulnerable people should stay at home as much as possible, whilst healthy people (like me) should risk it and try and develop immunity through infection. Seems horrible, and heartless, but lockdown cannot continue forever.

Once we get a certain level of immunity vulnerable people will be more protected. And cases of young healthy people dying of it are extremely rare, more likely to have mild symptoms or being asymptomatic.

Oh, give over.

OP you do realise that other counties have relaxed their restrictions far more than the U.K. is doing right now.

Only after testing, tracking and tracing.

Unfortunately the government have handled testing, tracking and tracing abysmally badly, and have seriously eroded public confidence. The changes put forward re going back to work would be quite reasonable with a good framework behind them - the fact that ministers are unable to clarify how employees should behave if confronted by unsafe conditions at work is really worrying.

This isn’t an either/or scenario. It’s possible to help the economy (why do you think furlough has been extended) and get people back to work and protect people and protect NHS resources. It just looks like this government might not be capable of it.

And yet many Mumsnetters will refuse to download the app because ‘Tories’ This is their level of intelligence

I really disagree with this. Generally, Tory governments are less interested in tracking people in general. It was Tony Blair’s Labour government that was fighting tooth and nail to bring in ID cards. Tories tend to be more libertarian on this stuff and if the tracing scheme is transparent, limited and fit for purpose people should use it. That’s if trust in the government hasn’t been completely destroyed.

So basically you are saying you don’t want to go to work at the moment? But it’s fine for nurses, doctors, shopworkers, food suppliers, teachers looking after key workers children and all the rest to carry on ?

I don’t want C19 either, I am lucky in that I have worked from home throughout this, but we can’t continue as we are, but we do have to be careful. That’s why when schools go back I think it should be part time for the children so say 2 days to start with so class size can be smaller then review during the summer holidays

Those who are self employed and get no help can’t carry on with no help, they need to get back to work to feed their families

There is a school of thought that we may never find a vaccine and may have to live with C19 so-does the country stay in lockdown forever?

People who are government employees don’t want to work normally but have their money coming in regardless.

DH is a government employee, none of his department are on furlough or being paid for nothing, they are all working from home doing their normal hours. The telephony staff from the contact centre are even taking phone calls at home.