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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Self employed cleaner only going back to clients who have continued to pay/support.

408 replies

shonapop · 12/05/2020 14:56

Seriously considering ditching the people who didn't give a toss. Anyone out there the same?

OP posts:
WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 12/05/2020 19:15

Northernsoullover that's exactly it. It's as if I never existed, after several years of loyal service. Not heard a peep, or an enquiry as to will I go hungry?

Unfortunately, the whole point of being self-employed is that it's up to you to make sure you won't go hungry. You're a SE cleaner who currently can't clean because of COVID, but you could equally be a SE builder who's broken a leg falling down the stairs and can no longer work for a few months. Similarly, you could be a SE gardener who stays perfectly fit and well and able to work but still nobody wants your services in Winter.

You either become an employee and give up a lot of your freedoms to somebody else, who, in return has to take on those risks on your behalf; or you go/stay self-employed and have the liberty to pick your clients, choose your working hours, set your prices, but you also have to bear the risks of being unable to work - whether through illness, pandemic, lack of custom, whatever - all by yourself.

It's up to you alone to prepare/insure for hard times and unforeseen circumstances. You're like a shop and your services are your merchandise - people see what you have to sell, look at the price and decide if they want to buy it or not.

The same as if you're looking at travel options, you weigh up the costs and benefits of the bus or train vs a much more expensive taxi. If you have plenty of time to get there and only one small bag, you'll probably take the train and it won't even enter into your head that, by deciding against the taxi and saving yourself a considerable sum, some poor cabbie and his family might go hungry.

I think the assumption that a lot of people have about cleaning as a profession is that it's always somebody feeling forced into a job purely because they're poor. This is a very condescending way to look at things and belittles the value of the job and the skill of the worker.

If you see a Big Issue seller on the street, you quite probably will spend £3 on a magazine (might even give them a fiver or a tenner) which you'd never dream of buying if it were on the shelf at WH Smith, but it's understood that they are, in the nicest way, a needy charity case, with a real imbalance of power. This shouldn't be the case for a cleaner, hairdresser, nail technician, painter and decorator, taxi driver - unless you genuinely want/need their service and they genuinely want/need to earn your money, no arrangement or transaction should go ahead. Both of you should be equal dignified participants in any transaction, with neither of you fulfilling your side purely/chiefly as a 'favour' to the other, because you feel sorry for them.

Feefsie · 12/05/2020 19:16

I have paid my cleaner £60 per week since the end of March. I will continue to pay her as normal.

GeraltOfRivia · 12/05/2020 19:16

So you'd ditch me. Someone who had not service. It also lost 80% of my usuaL work and has no income. Way to support clients also in crisis. I think that's shitty. I couldn't afford to pay my cleaner while I have no work. I'm not employed, no furlough,

Bakedbrie · 12/05/2020 19:17

We’ve had a paycut ourselves. Cleaners aren’t coming and aren’t being paid. Sorry but that’s how it is.

Jellykat · 12/05/2020 19:19

Crazytimes it doesn't really matter if they're the employer, it is still a much more personal relationship!
All my cleaning jobs include a lot of weekly exchanges on a personal level, i know a lot about their lives and vice versa.

RonSwansonIsBuff · 12/05/2020 19:20

I agree with PP that you seem to want the benefits of being employed whilst also having the freedom of being self employed.

Unfortunately you can't have both. Both come with pros and cons.

If you are self employed, you are exactly that, your clients are not your employers.

Scrumbleton · 12/05/2020 19:21

If they couldn’t pay then don’t blame you. If they could but wouldn’t then shame on them. Our cleaner is highly valued and we paid her in advance for 2 months. She’s coming back next week and I’m overjoyed. She’s had covid and I think I have too so low risk.

0v9c99f9g9d939d9f9g9h8h · 12/05/2020 19:24

blackberry Well of course. But to do it out of umbrage because she doesn't think the other party should have exercised their rights is...a bit silly IMO.

Leaannb · 12/05/2020 19:25

@GeraltofRivia...If you have no job and not furloughed how would you be able to afford your cleaner now? Of course you will be dropped. You can't afford to pay her. She shouldn't have to clean your house for free

Dalamalama · 12/05/2020 19:25

@WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll Good point. I do feel as a cleaner I am sometimes looked down on and pitied at times when in reality I actually make an ok living. I chose to do as it works for me.

I do get on very well with a few of my clients which maybe makes myself and perhaps other cleaners forget that this is a business arrangement ,end of.

I have posted in the past about getting paid throughout this but this post has made me realise /remember that it is just a business agreement which either me or my clients can end whenever we want.

Johnbowlby · 12/05/2020 19:26

Who are you hurting if you don't go back to these clients ? You. They will find another cleaner very easily in this current climate

monkeycats · 12/05/2020 19:26

Jelly, but many people have regular “personal exchanges” with their independent fishmonger in the market; or their child’s tutor. What about SE personal trainers? Counsellors and therapists? Regular gardeners? SE home hairdressers? All these people have made the choice to be SE and all will believe they have a personal relationship with their clients. The fact is, the client is not responsible for any of them.

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 12/05/2020 19:26

Laughing at people saying they haven't kept in touch with their hairdresser, physio etc.. they have many customers on their books you know!.

Yes, and they're not earning any money from any of those many customers right now.

It's a much more personal relationship,someone who you trust with your keys and has access to your house and knows a LOT about you!

Your GP/gynaecologist/midwife know far more about you personally than your cleaner does. You don't object to that, because everybody recognises that they're providing a professional service that they're paid for and are not your mate doing you a favour.

oblada · 12/05/2020 19:30

Why on earth would people pay you for not working? were you even able to work or did you decide not to work? If you could have come to work (if the clients could ensure social distancing) then really no reason for you to be paid for not working. If the clients cancelled I would expect them to pay maybe the first time if last minute but not going forward. I've not paid my cleaner. She's fab tho and I value her and will increase her pay when she is back for a bit I expect.

FudgeBrownie2019 · 12/05/2020 19:32

I get that for some people things like paying cleaners isn't an option because of a drop in income, but for those who can afford to pay, it's fine if they've chosen to continue - DH and I are both still working full time so have no reason not to pay our cleaner. I love her, our dogs love her, she's honest, trustworthy and lovely. I've continued paying our dog walker, too, because when life does eventually claw its way back to 'normal' I'd like to think she's able to stay in business as we'll still need her.

GeraltOfRivia · 12/05/2020 19:34

@leannb what I'm saying is I'm not paying her while getting no service. I can't afford to. I'm working on getting new clients and hopefully can start up again. Do you think I should be paying for a a we're vice I'm not receiving ? That's not business. If she COULD work and I still couldn't pay of course I'd expect to be dropped.

Rhianna1980 · 12/05/2020 19:36

You’ve got to understand that your clients haven’t stopped using you by choice, it’s because they were forced to.

Ditching them because they were forced to do something that wasn’t their choice is evil.
The future is looking shit. Most People have lost their normal income at the moment not just you.

You are just angry and think that the world revolves around you.
People have lost their jobs just like you.
There’s nothing vindictive here.
Pfffffft

Just be grateful that some people have carried on paying.

Mummyoflittledragon · 12/05/2020 19:37

Did you contact your clients to let them know you wouldn’t be coming? My cleaner didn’t. She cleans fortnightly. I texted her at the beginning of the week before lockdown as i coronavirus symptoms to let her know she couldn’t come. As I was expected to SI for 7 days and as I knew we may be locking down, I gave her the option of picking another day once the 7 days was up or not coming. I intended to pay her either way and she agreed to switch days, except she never came back to me and I never heard from her since. Do I you think I should be paying for her? Sorry but I do not. If you want something, you have to oil the wheels. I do not even have her bank details as I pay cash in hand.

LittleFoxKit · 12/05/2020 19:38

If you can afford it YANBU.

People forget that the self employed furlough scheme hasn't yet paid a penny, and people still needed to afford to live from the beginning of lockdown....

LittleFoxKit · 12/05/2020 19:42

It's a much more personal relationship,someone who you trust with your keys and has access to your house and knows a LOT about you!

Your GP/gynaecologist/midwife know far more about you personally than your cleaner does.

^^^^
This is like comparing a steak dinner with a tofu salad. Gp's, gynecologists, midwives are for the most part all still getting paid.... so you can't really compare that to a cleaner....

BlackberryCane · 12/05/2020 19:43

Without knowing more about the circumstances 0v9 it's silly to say OP is being silly.

JohnnyMcGrathSaysFuckOff · 12/05/2020 19:44

Jelly I have had my hair cut every 4 weeks for at least 8 years by the same lady. She takes about an hour to cut my hair, and over the years, we have discussed her wedding, both our fertility struggles, traumatic births, ill babies, and post baby bodies. I got her a small wedding present and a card when her little girl was born.

I really like her. She knows way more about me than my cleaner. I am not paying her to cut my hair now because she isn't doing it. I haven't asked her if she has enough money to live on because she is an intelligent woman, a home-owner, a mum who manages her own life and would probably tell me to get stuffed if I asked about her private finances.

My cleaner has come to us for a few years and I like her. But it is a business arrangement. She told us before lockdown that she didn't want to come - fair enough. She gave us a couple of days' notice. That is her prerogative as a SE person.

Before this, having a cleaner was our only luxury. Our childcare bills are sky high and we spend pretty much everything we make. We don't buy new clothes for adults, we don't go on holiday, we don't go to the pub or theatre.

Now, DH has been furloughed so we have lost 20% of his income. That loss is way more than our cleaner's fee. And I am working FT from home and doing the cleaning myself in the only time I have away from Zoom calls or my small children. We are still paying childcare bills, because if not, we will lose our children's place and when we go back to work OTH in a few weeks we will be stuffed.

No way am I paying someone to do work I am actually doing in those circumstances!

CherryPavlova · 12/05/2020 19:49

I think having cleaners back is madness. The same people going from house to house, often to households with vulnerable people and putting others at risk. Ours won’t be returning for a good while yet but they’re employed via an agency and still going to quite a few older people.

EinsteinaGogo · 12/05/2020 19:51

This is always such an emotive subject.

There is a HUGE difference between an anonymous service provided via an agency, a person who's come to your home 3 or 4 times, or a long-standing relationship you've had with someone over the course of many years.

We've had the same person for more than 5 years. She's a single mum: she does 7 hours a week for us and we pay her £90 by a week standing order. She has about 5 clients - we take the most hours, most have 2-3 per week.

When we are on holiday she will look after the cats, water the plants and make sure the house is great for when we get back. When the kids were young teens, she'd make sure her two afternoons coincided with them coming home if we were in the office.

We've paid her in full lockdown and still are. I think she'll start to come back from next week.

heartsonacake · 12/05/2020 19:55

It's as if I never existed, after several years of loyal service. Not heard a peep, or an enquiry as to will I go hungry?

Don’t be so silly. It is not their responsibility to ensure you don’t go hungry; you’re a grown adult. If you weren’t working for them they had no need to be paying you.

Cut your nose off to spite your face if you want but it’s a buyers market out there right now.

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