Self employed cleaner only going back to clients who have continued to pay/support.

[shonapop]

Seriously considering ditching the people who didn't give a toss. Anyone out there the same?

I think you actually want the perks of being employed OP, with any freedoms of being self employed

OP, how are you normally paid? Cash in hand? Bank transfer? Weekly or monthly?

Your employers are not companies who are obliged to draw up a contract with you regarding such matters as sick pay, holiday pay or exceptional circumstances. Nor are they the social services.

If you want those kind of terms and conditions, you should get a job via an agency.

Put it this way, if you had wanted to leave the job at any time, you could just text and not go back and that’s that. I’m not saying you would do that, but you could.

They haven’t tied you in to a notice period or contract. You can hardly expect them, as individuals, not companies, to pay you for months on end!

Many people have lost their jobs. If the worst comes to the worst, you claim benefits like everyone else.

Maybe your “employers” have lost their jobs?

I’m afraid I find your attitude very entitled. Don’t return to anyone if you don’t want to. You are under no obligation - and this is the point! It works both ways.

My husband isn't working atm, I'm not going to pay my cleaner for not coming to my house when he isn't getting paid. Get over yourself

Your prerogative but no one is under an obligation today for a service that they can't use.

Cleaning is often seen differently on here to other SE services. Why is that

I have absolutely no idea - baffles me.

Do window cleaners attract such loyalty? or nail technicians?

The problem with expecting everyone to continue paying and supporting everything they did before is that it relies on them still earning enough to do so.
If your clients are still in work and unaffected then fair enough but if they have dropped to 80% of their wage, or are high earners who can only claim the £2500 max then they might not have been able to afford to carty on paying.

@Nonotthatdr, I think your cleaner is taking the mickey! Ours offered to come back and said we’d need to be in another room, she’d wear gloves, open windows etc. We have said no thanks for the time being (but we are paying her).

I'm just prioritising those who showed their concern. That is all.

Are you going out and paying for services you aren’t using? Sending money to the bus company, have you checked in with the server at that cafe you went to? The taxi driver? The hairdresser? Still paying for the haircuts you haven’t had?

@Nonotthatdr well I dont think I would be having my cleaner back if she behaved in that way.

@shonapop i find it odd you have not explained why you wont be accessing the SE income scheme. I can understand that cashflow is hard for many right now but like others have said we havent continued to pay many other SE people for services we are not receiving.

Whilst DH and I were both being paid we continued paying for every activity and bill as normal to ensure businesses could continue trading but now we can't do that.

It is your right as a SE cleaner to refuse any work.

However, I went through a period of having less disposable income and stopped my cleaner. I wouldn't actually go back to having one now because I can do the exact same work and in some places better and I realised that saving the money was worth it.

You might find less work about given people are concerned about their jobs and future income so be careful about mixing emotions with business.

I'm a childminder. I didn't expect any of my parents to pay me- the situation is not their fault and it's not mine either,but, personally, I don't feel it's fair to charge when I can't provide the service that they need. Fortunately, several families are continuing to pay me voluntarily,for which I will be eternally grateful. Other families are paying a small amount, some ,none at all. Those who haven't paid won't be penalised- they have their own financial issues- and they will have a space back for their child when they need it. They will need me, and I will need them.

As a self-employed person you can choose who to work for, so you can stop working for these people if you want to. Assuming you can afford to give up their custom and/or are confident you can replace them.

I would say that when you choose to be self-employed that there are pros and cons, as with PAYE. One of the downsides with being SE is that you don’t get paid sick pay, don’t have paid annual leave etc- i.e. if you don’t work, you don’t get paid. It seems you want all the plus sides of being SE but none of the downsides. If we should all pay cleaners, should we also be paying all other self-employed people who we use either regularly or when required? If not, why not?

I haven’t called up the physio, horses physio, hairdresser etc to “check if they are starving”. I have paid the physio for an appointment I had to cancel last minute just as covid restrictions cane in- as per her T&C.

I’m not sure why are cleaners a special case? Lots of people saying they weren’t paying their childminders if they weren’t sending their children and most people said “not paying for a service I don’t receive”.

I have 3 cleaning jobs, one is furloughed as PAYE, one is paying me a retainer and the other is elderly so i wouldn't accept any payment.

It depends on the circumstances moneywise, however all of them have kept in contact with me through this.. is that more the crux of the matter, rather then the actual money shonapop?

Do whatever you want. Neither you nor your clients are entitled to each other.

Laughing at people saying they haven't kept in touch with their hairdresser, physio etc.. they have many customers on their books you know!.. but employers usually only have one cleaner, so obviously the relationship is a little more personal, especially as they work in your home.

It's as if I never existed, after several years of loyal service. Not heard a peep, or an enquiry as to will I go hungry?

In the nicest possible way, it's not their problem. I'm self-employed and while I'm still posting on my Facebook page, I've had no enquiries and no business in nearly two months. It's just life.

It's a business relationship, not a personal one. These people aren't your friends, they're your clients.

She says that therefore she can’t return and we need to keep on paying as it’s our fault we’re not providing a safe environment!

Time to gie madam her jotters, I think.

We're still being paid in full so we're paying our cleaner in full during lockdown. Hopefully she can come back soon and in the meantime I know she appreciates the support.

@Jellykat but they arent the employers are they? OP is self employed

You've asked a question where the answer if entirely up to you without giving any information about why you aren't getting the self employment grant. What do you expect posters to say?

No one is forcing you to work for anyone, cleaners seem to think they are special, are other self employed people expecting to be paid for work not being done?

Nonotthatdr I get your cleaner wants a safe working environment but considering you won't even be there, her reaction is OTT! You need to find a compromise.

We have the opposite situation where our cleaner wants to come back but she's a single mum with a six year old and doesn't have childcare so asked to bring him with her, which we've said no to for obvious reasons. We've been paying her in full every week since the lockdown but now we're getting to the stage where money is getting tight with rise in shopping bills and it could be mid-June before she returns, then what do we do over the school summer holidays if her son still can't come with her? I'm SE too and feel awful even thinking about having to let her go.

My cleaning lady is lovely and has been coming twice a week for two years. In January, she came on the Monday and told me that she wouldn’t be coming as of that week Thursday because she was going to Mexico to oversee the sale of some property she has over there. She said she wasn’t sure how long she would be gone for, but probably a few months.

Obviously, in a contracted job, you wouldn’t be able to do that, but she’s not under a contract, so is perfectly within her rights and fair enough.

I could have replaced her in this time, but actually found it easier to just do the cleaning myself.

Just before lockdown, she did text me to say she was back, but a few days after this, lockdown started so obviously she couldn’t have returned.

Should I have have then contacted her and offered to pay her? I would normally pay her £80 per week?

To be honest, DH is self-employed and has not qualified for any govt schemes. His work has pretty much dried up. I’m not sure we’ll even go back to having a cleaner as we’ve managed without and saving the money has been a blessing at this time.

But OP, don't you understand this is the nature of being self-employed? You're your own boss and responsible for yourself, with all the freedoms that entails. What makes you suddenly look at your clients as employers the moment it stood you when they're probably in a similar boat? You're not the only person this is happening to. What if your clients have been furloughed or own a business that isn't making a profit? Do they owe you an explanation let alone their money for you to do nothing? If you were an employee, then absolutely. But not otherwise, I don't think.

I do think a cleaner is different from a hairdresser etc
It's a much more personal relationship,someone who you trust with your keys and has access to your house and knows a LOT about you!
Paying mine and ( secretly )judge people who are not ,if they are still earning

This is also the nature of having a self-employed cleaner though 0v9. The argument you make applies in reverse too. The OPs clients are within their rights not to pay her, she's in her rights to drop them for their actions. If either party wanted a different arrangement, the onus was on them to make it PAYE.