Self employed cleaner only going back to clients who have continued to pay/support.

[shonapop]

Seriously considering ditching the people who didn't give a toss. Anyone out there the same?

For me, it’s showed who gives a toss and who doesn’t. I have a very strong relationship with my favourite family I clean for and they have paid me an amount every month to keep me from having absolutely no money. (I have had to claim universal credit since work stopped) One paid a portion of the grant she received when her work dried up. The others have not sent anything financially and I don’t expect them to but.. it does leave me feeling a bit unimportant in a way, as they know it’s my only income. I’ll still go back to them though. Having this time off has really made me realise who I enjoy working for and who I don’t. Not because of how they treated me during this but just the work really. I much prefer cleaning the houses where the owners go out and leave me to it! Tempted not to go back to the ones who haven’t helped me financially over this mainly because we just don’t have that great relationship anyway.

“Clients didn't give much consideration to me at all and all are well off.”

How on earth do you know that through? Yes they may appear well off, but maybe that house is supported by a massive mortgage. You don’t know their outgoings or financial set-up. Maybe their jobs aren’t secure either? Maybe they have family to support who have lost jobs and in crisis? Or maybe they have actual PAYE staff to think about if they run companies?

I find the level of entitlement on here quite odd.

If you want things like sick pay, holiday pay or furlough, you know what to do - join an agency.

I used to have a cleaner who was quite blatant about the fact she only wanted cash in hand to avoid tax, but then she actually wanted me to pay her 5 weeks holiday and sick pay as well. What planet are some people on? She thought the fact she was generally on time and “honest” justified this. As if this deserved a medal.

Never mind “sacking” them - you’ll probably find most if them can’t afford you after this. Luxuries like cleaners are the first thing people have to drop in a recession, unfortunately.

Self employed are not entitled to 80% of their earnings, it's 80% of their profits. Which, if they have fixed overheads such as premises, essential maintenance, registrations, insurances etc for some by the time they have paid those out there will be nothing left to live on.

Cleaners may be easily available, but many have told me it is damn hard to get a good one. And to the poster who said it is not a skilled job, I have had many clients tell me they could not do the amount I do inside the time AND maintain that standard time after time.

Monkeycats, as a cleaner you will no which clients are well off and which are just your average Joe.

A lot of people can't afford to pay you to not do anything.

The fact is that in my situation they have tried other cleaners because I previously have resigned and they could not find someone to meet my high standards...which me that they do trust me to have good standards, to not have to have my hand held and that I am ‘worthy’.

On top of everything else I had said on this thread, they had the opportunity to offer but didn’t. For all they know, I wouldn’t have accepted it....but they’ll never find out because they chose money over helping me. They have made that assumption about me, which admittedly I have chosen to take personally.

Tootsey - you might think you know, but you only see the surface.

Very wealthy people are likely to have investment portfolios - many will have lost thousands or even millions in the space of a week after lockdown. The markets went off a cliff as never before..

Wealthy entrepreneurs or business owners are likely to be struggling a lot - the fact you see them “working full time” doesn’t tell the whole story. Only they know how stable their jobs are or how close their companies are to bankruptcy.

Never assume anything.

I checked with my cleaner.
She wasn’t eligible for Government support as she set up less than a year ago.
My firm has continued to pay me in the last six weeks and therefore I’ve continued to pay her.
It is my responsibility and the right thing to do, surely?
I have a wealthy friend with unaffected income who has stopped paying her home support during this. I judge her for that.

Your GP/gynaecologist/midwife know far more about you personally than your cleaner does.

^^
This is like comparing a steak dinner with a tofu salad. Gp's, gynecologists, midwives are for the most part all still getting paid.... so you can't really compare that to a cleaner....

But we weren't talking about the source of income - purely that plenty of non-family members come up close and personal for a lot of professional reasons. The comment that I was commenting on almost seemed to suggest that cleaners will have 'dirt' on you and so should be given hush money.

Why would they pay you when you aren't cleaning their house?

We aren't paying the nursery because they aren't looking after DD

....& as it’s been highlighted on the many threads before, we don’t earn enough to put money away for the unknowns like this. We can’t raise our fees because of the competition out there.

I'm sure that lots of cleaners and other SE folk don't earn enough to save (same as many employed folk, including us), but that is something you have to consider when deciding if being SE is a viable option for you.

You could get an ice cream van and make that your whole source of income, but if it provided only an adequate income in the Summer and didn't leave you with enough for the times of the year when nobody wants to buy ice cream, sadly it's not a viable business - at least without being supplemented by something else.

That couple were nasty, though - you were absolutely right to bin them off. You deserve better than them.

Surely you would be able to claim a supplementary self employed 80% wage on the government furlough scheme according to your previous tax returns during the lockdown period? I don't quite see why you should be paid by your clients anymore than other people i.e. hairdressers, gardeners. etc. being self employed by definition they are not your employer.

Monkeycats, none of my clients are business owners. The ones who are still working on full pay are government workers.

And I don't know whether you have worked as a cleaner, you seem to know a lot about it though, but you can tell if a client is well off by the brand's they buy, where they shop, how a house is decorated, the new clothes they show you and where it's from. The average wage earner does not shop at bloody Waitrose and wear Prada and Gucci.

It's 80% of profits.

I don't think MN is representative of real life with regards to paying cleaners. I've seen thread after thread where people are very kindly continuing payment during lockdown.

That is notmy experience nor that of other cleaners I know. One of my clients has offered £30 a week which will be deducted off my wages when I return. I'm ridiculously grateful as I'm struggling, but it's a loan.

Some really flippant dismissive comments about self employed on here!
The SE grant is not going to be awarded until around mid June. It's based on the last 3 years tax returns and an average profit calculated from those . It will cover some of the debts and bills I have accrued after being on zero income since March. I can't live on that.

Not all SE meet the criteria for the 80% scheme For example anyone who hasn't been a sole trader for 3 years and doesn't have 3 years tax returns. Anyone who spent the first year turning over no profits etc.

A lot of SE have been thrown on the Universal Credit scrap heap. To illustrate the problem with that; I applied in March as did 2 million other new applicants. I am still in an online queue waiting for my claim to be looked at...I'm worried sick about being evicted because I'm behind on rent.

Things are pretty desperate for some self employed so I understand your frustration OP I think you're directing your anger at your clients unfairly. I do understand that you feel a bit bitter and underappreciated.
Perhaps look into increasing your hourly rate for new customers to help you get back on your feet?

I have paid our cleaner of 17 years throughout. I fear not everyone has. I wouldn't blame you at all if you didn't return. I can understand it if someone has lost or greatly reduced their own income but otherwise it's just not fair.

Have any of your clients lost their jobs or source of income as a result of Coronavirus? If so, will you continue to go and clean for them and not expect to be paid for it or is this just a one way arrangement where only you benefit?

If I was someone's employer than I would feel responsible to help them out financially by furloughing them or paying them a % as a retainer. However many cleaners who do not work for an agency regard themselves as "self employed" and the client pays them for the hours they do, assuming they handle their own tax and NI.

As a self employed person who pays their taxes and honestly declares their profit I struggle with the concept of paying another self employed person for a service they do not provide. If I dont provide a good or service to my clients I dont get paid. Simples. It has nothing to do with fairness. If you have been honest with the tax man then you are eligible to make a claim. I am a business man not a charity.

Self employed should have considered this before setting up

Do you mean plan for a pandemic? Even SE insurance doesn't cover inability to work due to pandemic. No one expected this.

It's not a life style choice to be on a low income and self employed. Just normal people trying to get by anyway they can.

I can't afford to run a car so set up as a SE cleaner so I could choose my own customers locally, walk there and fit it all in around dc.

When one of my clients offered to pay me, I said no thanks, but I very much appreciated the kind offer. She replied quite directly that it had nothing to do with being kind, it made good business sense. She was still on full pay, so could pay me. That kept my business up and running, so I had money to spend in other businesses and so on. If people have no income, they can't support other businesses. A cleaning service is totally different to any other, it is much more personal, and if you have a good one and are still working yourself, then you will want to keep your place with the person you have built up trust with over the years.

Never heard of paying for a service you are not receiving, well unless you’re an employer.

DH has a self employed income as a lecturer, to supplement his employed job. He hasn’t lectured since March, so has not been paid anything. I can’t imagine anyone paying him for the non lectures he ‘would’ have done if this had not happened. It’s more Do Lecture = pay, Dont do Lecture = no pay.

Surely that’s the whole definition of self employed? How well off the self employed person is is irrelevant.

I'm not a charity

It may have been a kind gesture to offer some (repayable) money to a cleaner until any furlough grant comes through. One of my customers has been transferring me a small amount weekly which she'll deduct from my wage when I return.
That works as a retainer and I don't feel like a charity case.

I think boundaries came become a little blurred with a cleaner/client set up. It is then more than just a cold business transaction.

I've worked for one family for years now and am very fond of the family. I spend a huge amount of time at their house while they are there; cleaning, laundry, ironing etc so have built up a rapport. We send each other birthday cards and so on. There is a relationship built up based on trust- you are in their home sometimes more than their husband is
It can therefore feel hurtful if a cleaner can't work, there's no offer of help or asking if they're coping. I understand why OP feels that relationship is damaged and she can't return.