Privilege

[NewModelArmyMayhem18]

Teenage DD thinks we're not privileged because we don't have a desirable postcode and are not wealthy. However, we do have a family income above national average, two university-educated parents (coming from a family on one side professional and educated to university level for four generations). She is basing this purely on disposable assets (i.e. we are not totally in favour of having the latest technology, don't have a car because we don't need one etc...). She got in a huff this evening because we called her out on her complaint. I wouldn't say she's spoiled and on paper has a less privileged state education than her older sibling but really she has no understanding of what real privilege is/isn't. And in a way she has a much wealthier and privileged group of friends than her sibling. Who is AIBU?

Privilege for a teenager is bound to be a far more “selfish” and narrower perspective than that of an adult with greater life experience and the ability to put things in context. The things that matter to your DD and her peers right now - like fashionable clothes, the latest tech, the material trappings of success - are what she and they associate with being privileged. It doesn’t mean she’s unreasonable, and not does it mean that you’re wrong: it just means that there’s a very natural and normal difference between your adult values and understanding and her inexperienced ones.

Thanks @ComtesseDeSpair that puts things in perspective (and reasonably). I just couldn't believe it when she referenced RightMove but without having any understanding that prices were based on the last dated sale of a property (rather than being contemporaneous).

We have not brought up our DC to value 'material trappings' so it makes it all the harder to be hit with the "I'm in no way privileged" mantra.

I think thinking you're not privileged because you don't have the latest gadgets is a very good illustration of privilege. We don't know we've got it because we've always had it.

I know in lots of ways we are very privileged but try telling that to a teen warrior on the warpath. Clearly she's got too much thinking time on her hands...

Niether.

You didn't have to 'call her out' on anything.

She made an observation, you counter it, the conversation goes on.

Thanks for understanding....We have been trying to explain that privilege is more than just material wealth but she's not biting!

I think a lot of it is about what she takes for granted: things like her parents’ education and good careers are just sort of there; they just are, if you see what I mean. They probably don’t feel like a particular privilege or something for her to be grateful for because they’re just the underlying foundations of her life.

What are your local area and her school like? Unless you live in a part of the UK with very little diversity then you can use many of her fellow students as examples of her privilege in terms of e.g. those who live in social housing, have parents on very low incomes. And depending on her age (13 is very different to 16 in terms of maturity to discuss as certain levels) the concept of privilege in terms of being white, able-bodied, British-born, and so on. You can talk about whether she thinks those things will give her an advantage when she goes to university or applies for jobs; and if she thinks they will, is that not being privileged etc.

I think your daughter may be confusing privilege with entitlement.
Privilege is far more than material assets.
You can always encourage her to work hard and have good aspirations in terms of her career and goals in life, so that when she earns a good wage she can buy herself the things she seems to want.
Is she old enough to become involved in a charity of some kind , which may open her eyes to less fortunate people, and also give her a sense of self worth which is not based on “ owning things “?

Privilege is knowing adults (parents' friends, friends' parents) who work in professional jobs and can talk to you about those careers and advise you on what to study. Privilege is the assumption that you'll go to uni because that's what's done, and you'll easily be able to get advice on where and what to study. Privilege is easily filling the UCAS statement with extra-curricular activities like music, theatre, sports etc.

"Ask Aunty Ann about law, she has a law degree."
"Sophie's mum's an accountant, why don't you ask her."
"Uncle Tom went to Durham, ask him what it was like..."

I volunteer with underprivileged but high potential teenagers who have no expectation of uni, don't know anyone who has been to a university (except a teacher), don't know anyone in any of the professions, government, literati type jobs. They struggle to fill in a UCAS statement because they've never had extra-curricular clubs or hobbies because they have no time/money/are a young carer/ballet, sports, music clubs etc not available in their poor inner city borough.

Am I understanding correctly that she goes to state school and an older sibling is privately educated?

teen warrior on the warpath

OP, if she's anything like mine when out of sorts or bored, then she is probably enjoying seeing you get frustrated.
And she is bright enough, but not mature enough to understand.
Don't engage. Not a battle you want to fight right now.

I wouldn’t say your life is underprivileged but not especially privileged either...

We have not brought up our DC to value 'material trappings'

This speaks volumes! I brought mine up the same. I think they’re a bit surprised that C friend has a ££££ car or Y friend goes skiing every year or Z friend has lasted makeup and must have jewellery .

I think it’s a bit of an eye opener to ‘want’ whatever others have.

A better explanation is A friend doesn’t have WiFi, B friend doesn’t have takeaways C friend only ha done pair of shoes, so for all those she envies there are other envying her.

The concept of "privaledge" is quite thorny atm I think. It was a useful tool at one point for understanding different ways people are disadvantaged, but now it's just another stick for people to beat each other with. Accusations of privaledge are often used to shut people down in debates; your areas of privaledge determine what you are or aren't allowed an opinion on; and the less privaledge you are seen to have, the longer you get to hold the talking stick. Not in real life obviously - in real life people without "privaledge" are still horribly disadvanted. But in the world of twitter, secondary school, and limited life experience, being seen to have too much privaledge is definitely a bad thing. It often gets tied up with moral judgements as well, so that people with privalege get written off as inherently bad. Being born into privalege is a kind of modern day original sin in the world of social justice activism. So if your daughter is ferverently insisting that she doesn't have privaledge, it might not be because she wishes she had more but because she wants to believe she has less for social reasons.

Privilege is choice. If you genuinely have choice as a family, then you are privileged in my opinion.

I understand her point, you don’t sound particularly privileged to me, just middle class. I can imagine her idea of privilege is a wealthier milieu, big house, private school etc, and it must be exasperating to be repeatedly told that she is privileged when, by her own (very reasonable) definition, she isn’t.

I think YABU for not realising that you both have different perspectives and expecting her to see things your way. The things you mention don't equal privilege if there's no substance/tangible/material evidence (in her eyes).

Something like not having a car because you don't need one is practical and reasonable but to her, it's probably yet another basic stuff you (family) don't have, including some personal stuff she may want/think she needs. Assuming she knows more people who have these things than those who don't.

Does she like reading? Get her looking at some Orwell. Down and out or Road to Wigan pier.

Privilege is relative. I live in a two-up, two down terraced house in a deprived city and most of my clothes come from the charity shop. I'm a damn sight more privileged than the homeless guy I chatted to today though. I've paid my mortgage off, I'm a lot more privileged than those struggling with their repayments. My car might be 18 years old but at least I've got one. I've got one toilet - millions of people in this world have no toilet at all. I can leave my house and do anything I want and nobody will give a shiny shite (pre-corona obvs.) so in terms of freedom and privacy, I am more privileged than the Queen.

Theres more to life than privilege.

For example

I was raised by a single parent in a victorian terraced house. We had everything we needed, plus some extra curriculars. But no spare money for new clothes(lots of hand me downs) or cinema/macdonalds like my friends had. But I know both my parents loved me. It was said and demonstrated daily.

A very good friend of mine had a very privileged upbringing. Only child. Private school (including a few years with Kate Middleton). His closest friends went to places such as Eton and Harrow. He recently inherited an almost 6 figure sum, and is set to inherit 2 houses, a family business and however much money his parents have. Anything he wanted he was given money for. But he had no relationship with his parents. They've never told him they love him. He has difficulty having and maintaining relationships even now.

However if you told me that when I was a teen I would still have wanted his life! Teens are weird like that.

Your DC sound more privileged than some. Less so than others.

Sorry I don't understand this privilege lark, was I underprivileged when I grew up in a council house, had a father who worked 3 jobs and left school at age 15 with no qualifications maybe I was

But am I privileged now at age 65 Operations Director with a multi national organisation, paying the higher rate of tax, fully owning my own home, a good private pension ( hopefully) maybe I am

So what's changed from age 15 to age 65, apart from what I have done for myself to get where I am now hard work and flexibility.

What Comtesse said.

@NewModelArmyMayhem18 - YABU for attempting to discuss this with a teen. You are using logic whereas she will be an emotional responder who, like HATES you coz jenna’s dad’s got another Porsche and like we are so totally able to afford it, you just don’t want to spend it.

Been there, got the t shirt

Show her this...
Privilege Explained in a $100 Race -

It might help her understand her level of privilege a little better.

Why does her sibling get a private education and she only gets a state school? That seems unfair?