Privilege

[NewModelArmyMayhem18]

Teenage DD thinks we're not privileged because we don't have a desirable postcode and are not wealthy. However, we do have a family income above national average, two university-educated parents (coming from a family on one side professional and educated to university level for four generations). She is basing this purely on disposable assets (i.e. we are not totally in favour of having the latest technology, don't have a car because we don't need one etc...). She got in a huff this evening because we called her out on her complaint. I wouldn't say she's spoiled and on paper has a less privileged state education than her older sibling but really she has no understanding of what real privilege is/isn't. And in a way she has a much wealthier and privileged group of friends than her sibling. Who is AIBU?

Older sibling didn't go to private school - he went to a super-selective state grammar. Just to point out that she had the same opportunity but didn't do the required prep to get in (she refused point blank).

That's a good idea @L0BstersLass.

Anyway it's opened up a good debate about privilege.

We did try to explain that privilege is more than affluence and the value of your home but doesn't understand it.

She goes to a very diverse secondary school - it probably has greater polarity than many though.

www.buzzfeed.com/regajha/how-privileged-are-you

You could show her something like this quiz and accompanying video to explore her privilege. There are probably more uk oriented ones if you google.

Thanks for all your support - I cannot believe that AIBU has generated such positivity.

It depends what you call being privileged. If you look at wealthy circles, then she is far from them.

Better off than some, much worst off than others. Tell her she can work to put herself up in the world, it's not up to you. Carole Middleton was an air hostess and her grandchildren are heir to the throne...

Sounds like a normal teenager to me.

What was her actual complaint? Is she discontented because she feels her family isn't 'keeping up with the Joneses'? Is this the 2020 version of 'But all my friends have ponies!'?

Actually the Middletons surfaced in my thoughts as we were discussing the subject.

I was thinking of the famous Monty Python 'class' sketch too.

It's the self-assuredness of a young teen speaking without the voice of experience that gets me through. Clearly it's been too long since I was that age.

My teenager told me a couple of years ago that she had less expensive presents than just about any of her friends - whilst acknowledging that she was one of the most privileged in her friendship group. She was (and is) perfectly capable of understanding that flash electricals/cars aren’t necessarily signs of privilege.

That said, my dc have been on pretentious, achingly middle class holidays.

I think I need to add that dd realised our tatty car and cheaper presents mean we have the spare money to pay for flash holidays, which she says are a better waste of money!

on pretentious, achingly middle class holidays.

I really want to know what they are!

If her friends' families have a car and the latest tech, it's understandable that she feels they are more privileged than her.

You say that you earn above the national average but don't spend money on 'material trappings' (and I agree that your outgoings seem modest from the info you give), what do you spend it on? I assume you're putting it away in savings and a pension pot? That's very sensible and I'm totally with you, but it's unreasonable to expect a teenage to feel the same way.

I agree with the above. As a child and teen I was convinced we were a "poor family" but in hindsight my DDad is a tight fisted debt averse person and loads of my friends families were buying all sorts on credit rather than earning significantly more than my parents.

By MN standards these are probably just plain common, but backpacking down Vietnam and into Cambodia, jungle tours... We always go to castles, cathedrals and temples. Last year we visited Brussels and the European Parliament.

My dc also snorted when watching Outnumbered when Sue’s sister was talking about holidays to Spain - dismissing the beach, and talking about the ‘real’ Spain - Seville and Granada. Because that’s exactly where we visited!

If anybody is thinking my dc need to visit the stately homes threads, I’d agree.. but unfortunately our dc still insist on holidaying with us.

Even in this thread of adults, there are lots of different understandings of what privilege means. To me it’s nothing to do with iPhones, flash holidays and cars, it’s getting a head start in life by being:

White
Male
Straight
Able bodied
Western (with the access to free education and healthcare that that brings)

But I’m not surprised that for a teen, things look a little different.

It is absolutely possible to be white, male, able bodied, straight and deprived. Look at educational outcomes for working class white males in this country.

And poverty is relative.

@caperberries middle class is by definition, privilege, if you are born into it. As others have described, it is about the options available to you.
E.g my parents were born into poverty, they worked extremely hard. They were not privileged, my sister and I who benefited from their hard work, were.

If she and all her friends are white, able bodied, western and straight then she's not going to see how she is privileged because they are all on a level playing field. She's probably too young to see right now how being female can be a disadvantage.
Kids always think they are hard done by if their friends have something that they don't. At her age it's natural to judge it by house or car or holidays. It's only later that people start considering their attitudes towards higher education and taking for granted that they will have a career rather than a job etc.

She does have friends from diverse backgrounds including some who are not straight and quite a few who are Muslim.

I think she's just choosing to be blinkered to argue her cause!

The whole field is nebulous and only the privileged ever try and point out that sin in others. Bringing race into it just highlights how divorced these people are from reality. As a PP said white males from inner cities are amongst the most deprived groups. If people stopped talking about privilege and entitlement the world would be a better place

hmm, off topic, but Buzzfeed are collecting a hell of a lot of data with that quiz, some quite sensitive, is that not a huge privacy concern? I was all geared up to do it, but stopped

@missperegrinespeculiar I see what you mean about the quiz.

Question: does having a student loan make you privileged (assuming the answer is yes)?

We went on holiday to Cuba a few years ago when DS2 was about 12 and I was struck by how difficult life was for average Cubans with the dual currency and lack of basics such as electricity.
We took a ride in a local taxi and we were talking to the driver about all kinds of things. He mentioned that he was currently saving for a pair of shoes for his son for when the new school term started and how hard it was to get the right currency. I seized on this as a learning opportunity for DS2 and asked him how many pairs of shoes he thought he had?
The potential lesson went right over his head when he replied "does that include rugby boots, football boots and flipflops" ?

Privilege is relative and intersectional.
Your teen though has a vested interest in only comparing their life to that of those more privileged. The usual social justice warrior manifesto is Marxist in nature with the privileged being the oppressors and the not privileged being the oppressed. To be a “warrior” and fit in for social justice movements, your teen has to prove their not privileged status. Otherwise, they are demoted to the passive, unquestioning status of “ally”

“Question: does having a student loan make you privileged”

Yes compared to those who cannot access a student loan despite good enough grades (e.g. recent immigrants)

No compared to those who have the funds to pay for tuition/accommodation and do not need any financing

@sluj ha!

Yes, DD clearly needs to go to a developing world country for a lesson in humility.

Is Cuba still the same in terms of not having decent supplies of fruit and veg? I always remember a pukka meal at the Hotel Nacional with tinned fruit cocktail for pudding! :-(.