To think seeing family in their garden is safer?

[VodkaCranberry2]

So we can see one member of another household outside 2m apart... surrounded by other strangers 2m apart where we don’t know where they’ve been/who they’ve seen, but we can’t social distance in our family’s garden where we know they’ve been isolating/only going to the shops? Is this not ridiculous?

@Spikeyball please can you tell me where to find the disabilities bits? My dad has dementia and I want to see my parents together

Using my common sense I would assume the idea is that you are now able to add one more person per day into your lockdown life that you didn't have in it before.
The gov can then measure the effect if any on the rate of infection. And then when this is known in the days/weeks ahead they will relax a little bit more and so on.
It's all about controlling the virus not the people.
Some people going to back to work, jogging round parks and having street parties on Thursday nights is all factored in to the equation.
They need to increase the number of people we mix with slowly instead of all at once.
Limiting personal contact with other households is something that we are easily able to manage and control whereas once outside of our household group it is impossible.
This tiny adjustment matters and it could make so much difference. Just do it people!

Lots of details regarding people with disabilities and their carers have not been widely publicised.

That's incredibly unhelpful for those who would benefit from this information. Carers are often time poor, as caring responsibilities can often be 24/7. They don't have time to scour the internet and GOV documents for information like this.

Yes, of course it's going to be safer for millions of people to meet a family member in the front garden where there are very few people than a park where there are going to be lots. And as others have pointed out, front gardens large enough to allow this aren't the sole preserve of the wealthy and privileged, nor even those whose homes are detached. There are whole areas of the country where these properties aren't very expensive and where the garden is a common feature in terraces and semis.

Yanbu it is frustrating.

I live in a road where we have big back gardens that can be accessed via a side entrance. The road also has a park in it. (Yes in this I am lucky.)

My mum who is alone can drive to the park and I can walk to the park (well if I didn't have the children) and we could be there 2m apart. But she can't go through my side gate and sit 2m from me in my garden because rules. Even though the latter is clearly less risky as involves no other people.

"There are whole areas of the country where these properties aren't very expensive and where the garden is a common feature in terraces and semis."

I live in a terraced street and people congregate by sitting on the pavement (in normal times too). Luckily, it's not too dangerous to walk on the road to avoid that, but in some places, clogging up the pavement is a big problem for physical distancing.

There were posters early in the lockdown explaining that for similar reasons to the ones you describe gwen, it was actually safer for them to drive to take exercise instead. Lots of people refused to understand, of course.

morelikeaclubsandwich there is nothing in the unpaid carers stuff but the government guidance says that gatherings of more than 2 are not permitted unless they are to ( one of the reasons) support the vulnerable. In this case under the new regulations you can meet with your dad outside somewhere and your mum is acting as his carer.

But she can't go through my side gate and sit 2m from me in my garden because rules. Even though the latter is clearly less risky as involves no other people

Yup, hence why I think it is important to apply one's own common sense to the situation!

I'd agree, except that applying your common sense might still get you fined.

I think it’s becoming increasing clear, from many of the personal circumstances described here, that the ‘park but not a garden’ rule is so that it can be policed and fines can be handed out.

I don’t get the ‘one person only’ rule from each household though. Surely, if you pass the virus to that one person their whole household are at risk anyway? And if you can meet one person from that household, and then another on the same day then you’d be out in the park longer

I could get on board with the rules we have had up until now as they seemed based on common sense. But these, well they just aren’t!

I am seriously considering just going to see my mom and sitting in her garden. She can leave the side entrance open for me, I won’t have a drink or anything there, won’t go in the house or use the loo. Won’t take my toddler with me etc and my sister will be inside the house anyway.

Likewise a dear friend of mine who has been struggling. She lives in a terraced house but I can access her garden without going near the house.

The main thing holding me back from seeing my mom is that she is 70, smokes and has mild COPD. Not enough for her to be shielding but enough for her to take ‘extra care’

I’m tying myself in knots trying to decide what to do for the best.

I'd agree, except that applying your common sense might still get you fined

I look forward to the x-ray vision needed to see into my garden for a fine to occur

Exactly, to get fined, you have to get caught and the police officer needs to actually decide to fine you.

Given the criticism they've received for petty overinterpretation of The Rules, I think the risk of most of us being caught in the act of having illegal tea and cake with relatives 2 metres apart in their front gardens and the police officer deciding to issue a fine straight off with no 'please don't do this again ladies' type conversation is so low that it's a risk that I'm perfectly happy to take.

And if any member of West Yorkshire Police runs out of more important things to do on Sunday afternoons, they're welcome to come looking for me.

@barbaraofseville I love your user name and your comment. I haven't got time to read all these comments but I just didn't relate to the pages of people begging to be told exactly what to do or the many desperate, terrified (and so badly drafted) YouGov petitions on Facebook. I'm reading the spirit of the advice which is to relax very slightly while the government sees what difference it makes. I think the government's success at socially conditioning people into fear has been maybe a bit too successful, and they're probably secretly concerned now that half the population will refuse to go back to work or send children to school. People just need to do what they feel is right for them, keeping an eye on the guidelines but not poring over them with a microscope.

Ethel - I think they have said public spaces because if toilets and cafés are closed people won't stay for very long. If they said one person could sit in someone's garden that's opening it up for people to think that whilst they're there they could have a quick cup of tea, or use the toilet, or someone might say come and have a quick look at the lounge that we've repainted. Not everyone has good common sense not to do these things and that's what the Government needs to take into account when taking steps towards more freedom.

@Ethelfleda the meeting with just 1 person is to avoid larger groups, it then can become difficult to social distance etc. They may not make 100% sense to you but they have to put some limitations on it. Being in public is likely to help people stick to the social distancing. Its very hard to monitor in gardens, do they say if your garden is over x metres and has an outside entrance only? This just seems the most sensible option and is a lifeline for those living alone.

Lets face it, we all miss our families but we have to do our bit IMO. Many people aren't adhering to any of the guidelines at all which is awful, if everyone had common sense there wouldn't be any need for such specific guidance.

Lets face it, we all miss our families but we have to do our bit IMO

Absolutely.

But then you see people congregating en masse (particularly suffering from groups of cyclists here) and it becomes safer for us to be in my garden!

actually the solo cyclists here are suffering from fuckwit chattering pedestrians who stand brainlessly in the middle of the road, and then move to opposite sides so the cyclist can't get past while being distanced. Use of the phrase 'shift your fat arses and stay 2m away from me' won't be long.

and that's without the out of control dogs and children...

actually the solo cyclists here are suffering from fuckwit chattering pedestrians who stand brainlessly in the middle of the road, and then move to opposite sides so the cyclist can't get past while being distanced. Use of the phrase 'shift your fat arses and stay 2m away from me' won't be long

Great. I’m sure you’re not suggesting that all places are suffering in the same way? We live on a popular cycle route, perfectly fine normally. Unfortunately for the majority of lockdown the meetings of groups of (inevitably male) cyclists have continued.

Changeofname yes, you’re likely right.
Upon reflection, I’ve decided to just stick to what we have been told to do. I will meet up with my mom, in a public park, spaced 2m apart. She has agreed too but is heartbroken as most of her friends are doing whatever they like, and essentially ‘rubbing it in’ when she speaks to them. They want to know why she hasn’t seen me or her grandson since March. Have even tried to make her feel guilty saying perhaps she should make more effort!
I’ve said, it’s bloody hard to stick to rules when you feel like you’re the only people doing it. But at least our consciences will be clear. She seems happy with that.

@MarieQueenofScots yes this is the problem isnt it. My poor mum is too scared to go outside walking now.

@Ethelfleda I totally understand, it's a kick in the teeth but they are arseholes and like you say we'll all have clear consciences. My mum has seen my boys once through the window when she drove round and once from the end of the forecourt when she has cycled to drop some shopping off for us. I am going to convince her to come for a walk on Sunday.