TO not understand why years 10 and 12 are not the priority

[Londonmummy66]

Why on earth are year 6 a priority to go back to school but not years 10 and 12 who desperately need the teaching time due to exams next year? If only years 10 and 12 went back now it should be possible to socially disatce them by using the large rooms (eg sports halls/canteens) to teach lessons for large classes and larger classrooms for the less busy subjects.

I just feel that this cohort is going to be even more screwed over than years 11 and 13

Yabu - years 10 and 12 don't need to be a priority
Yanbu years 10 and 12 need to go back after half term

It is just untrue that all students in the cohort have been equally impacted. The difference between how the average state and average private school have offered online learning is huge, exacerbating existing inequalities. This is before we even get started on the difference between those within a single school who have good independent learning skills and those who need more support. Year 10 and 12 need to be a priority.

@ChipsAreLife That study hasn't been peer reviewed, and absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

There are studies which suggest children, especially those over 10, can transmit the virus to adults and each other. There aren't known cases as such, because even with track and trace this is very hard, but they've looked at how different measures affect the R rates in countries and what the transmission rate between different age groups are likely to be.

I will try to find links later.

first reply nails it - the very youngest kids need childcare in a way that older kids don't.

including a visit to their new school - while that new school is empty

Our head (secondary school) has said today that transition activities are unlikely to go ahead as normal and he is risk assessing staff visiting primary schools and primary school children visiting secondary schools, but the latter is unlikely to go ahead.

Y6 aren't going back for transition. I am more and more convinced that Y6 are going back to try and get more data on how this affects the R rate. Essentially, they are being used as test subjects.

It is just untrue that all students in the cohort have been equally impacted. The difference between how the average state and average private school have offered online learning is huge, exacerbating existing inequalities

I agree. DD is at an independent school and their lockdown provision has been exceptional. There is no way she is on an equal footing with a school where they have not been able to follow the normal timetable using virtual classrooms.

That said, I don't know what the answer is and I suspect that there isn't a perfect one - there are different consequences to every option.

I suspect that the economy and getting people back to work (hence childcare) is perhaps the most Important thing as grades can be manipulated.

Bear in mind that grade boundaries for most subjects are always normalised. It is likely that to get say an 8 next year will probably need less than previous years.

This doesn't address the gulf between well-supported private school students with online lessons and struggling state school students who are trying to make sense of google classroom and get organised and motivated. That gap is getting bigger every day. It just means that the private school kids will get grade 8s and 9s more easily than before.

The whole cohort is in the same position here - grades required for sixth form or uni places will be adjusted to reflect that. A uni just wants to take the top 100 students it can get got a course - whether they get AAA once year and ABB the next year doesn't matter if they are still the top 100 students

My dd has 7 years of uni to qualify in her dream career. She needs to know the same amount of information as the years before.

She's also up against candidates who have had online classes since lockdown. She's at a state school so not in that bracket. She has been able to self teach in 2 subjects but needs desperate help in her weakest one. Only one out of the two teachers she has in that subject has been replying and it's an arduous task asking for help by email - she's tried and the email chain is very long.

The whole cohort is in the same position here

That's not entirely true though. Some will have had months of very little work or support from their schools, while some have been doing a full school timetable from home every day. Many independent school kids are having fully taught virtual lessons. Plus some schools do the GCSE course over 3 years instead of 2, which will give them a big advantage.

Y6 aren't going back for transition. I am more and more convinced that Y6 are going back to try and get more data on how this affects the R rate. Essentially, they are being used as test subjects.

Indeed. I'm maried to a former primary head, am a former secondary head and used to do visits to Y6 in the summer term. Each visit lasted a couple of hours at most and then the children came to us for a day's "transition" (during which the experience they got was vaguely similar to what secondary is like).

We're still musing over what, exactly, this "transition" experience they're going to get if they go back to their primary schools will be like and how it will last half a term. I've also discussed it with a friend who is a primary head and she's puzzled about it, too - we'd far rather Y5 went in.

I'd simply get Y6 into the secondary school on their own for a day or two at the start of next term.

Yes I agree to a certain extent tht Year 6 is partly experimental although not necessarily just R rate. They are the Year that dont need much actual curriculum taught and have the most understanding as to what is going on. Working out a system of how best to teach in the circumstances needs pupils to work with. Year 6 I think are the best year to work with on this.

Year 5 on the other hand if you did it at the beginning the numbers you get would be such that any teaching would have to be retaught - no such worries with Year 6.

@ineedaholidaynow quite a lot of my year 10s are engaging with the work, despite the school contacting parents etc. My concern is that the ones keeping up will be miles ahead of those not working: how can we catch them up? Speaking to a French mate, certain year groups are being invited in but it’s all voluntary until at least September. There’s going to be a massive gap in knowledge within year groups, which then has a knock on effect on GCSEs.

I agree. DD is at an independent school and their lockdown provision has been exceptional. There is no way she is on an equal footing with a school where they have not been able to follow the normal timetable using virtual classrooms.

We ae fortunate in that my DCs have had this quality of provision from their state school.

I wonder if the universities will do something extra based on Sutton Trust data and the eligibility for contextual offers?

In response to the snarky comment upthread, yes I do have a year 12 but that doesn't make me biased - I'd still think year 10 and 12 should be prioritised regardless. For year 12 they will essentially have missed a fifth of their A level course. Given that many take a while to make the step up to A level their predicted grades may well be affected not just by the lack of time to cover the syllabus but also the lack of time to learn the new techniques needed to answer A level papers. There will be a similar issue for year 10s - its not just the content but also learning how to use/apply it that will be affected.

As far as year 6 are concerned they could go back for a week at the end of the term to deal with transition they do not need 5 weeks - would have been better to have taken back year 2 so that all of KS1 was at school. Many parents with a reception child will also have a year 2 so I can't see that it will be that helpful from a childcare point of view.

They are looking at getting Primary all back by the end of June

I have a y12 too and feel nervous about his wording about being hopeful that they get some "face to face teacher time" I don't know if I'm being cynical but that doesn't necessarily mean teaching - it could just be a meeting right?

@PickUpAPickUpAPenguin that is the only thing the guidance seems to say about Secondary school. I wonder whether it will be a chat to tell them what might be happening next year re exams/assessments rather than lessons.

I'm hoping that it was phrased like that so schools aren't boxed into a corner and open unsafely. My dd needs to sit with a teacher (even for an hour) to get some questions that have arisen while set-studying answered.

@Londonmummy66 I share your concerns. My year 12 son did very well at GCSE and, in common with a fair few others I guess, went into 6th form feeling a bit cocky about it all and didn't knuckle down right away. His first report just after Christmas was pretty poor, with a D grade in what was his previously strongest subject, that he should really be looking at at least an A in. This gave him a shock and to be fair he has really worked hard since then. But the only grade on a 6th form report for the subject he was thinking of doing a degree in is now D. I'm now very concerned by the prospect of him going back in the Autumn and straight into University applications having missed a third of the year, with no parents evening or chance to discuss future plans with teachers and without having a proper chance to redeem himself in end of year exams. He had been wondering about taking a gap year anyway and I am increasingly leaning towards this idea then he will at least have real exam results by then. Well, hopefully. I don't dispute the effects on other year groups, especially 6, 11 and 13, but I think in some ways 10 and 12 could be worst affected.

I think Years 10 and 12 will be by far the most effected by this, followed by Year 9. Indeed overall I think Secondary will be far harder hit than Primary.

But I think the decision to open Primary and Secondary isnt about that. I think its because the over 10s are affected more heavily than under 10s, Secondary schools have more pupils and staff and figuring out how to handle that is harder, transport differences between the two and even though it shouldnt matter getting people back to work who have Primary schools back.

@MrsAvocet - I agree it really is a worry . Like many others, my year 12 moved schools so there was also the time spent just settling into new school/new teachers etc. There is also practical work and dissertation work which will need to be fitted in alongside the catching up next year. My other DC is in year 11 and it is actually far more straightforward for her than for the year 12s and 10s who are going to be messed up next year.

If you read the 50 page document from the gov today, you will see secondaries are told to prepare for Yr 10 and 12 returning from 1 June at earliest too.

@WombatChocolate it doesn't say that, it just says Y10 and Y12 to have some face to face contact with their teachers in support of their remote learning. Doesn't sound like lessons to me.

@WombatChocolate it doesnt say that at all. It says to prepare for some face to face contact with years 10 & 12 to support the continued remote learning.

I agree OP (though if I were being selfish I'd say my yr7 should be given priority!)

My reading of the government document was that years 10 and 12 would be continuing with remote learning for the rest of this term with some face to face contact to support that - ie that they won't be going back - which is totally wrongheaded IMO.