TO not understand why years 10 and 12 are not the priority

[Londonmummy66]

Why on earth are year 6 a priority to go back to school but not years 10 and 12 who desperately need the teaching time due to exams next year? If only years 10 and 12 went back now it should be possible to socially disatce them by using the large rooms (eg sports halls/canteens) to teach lessons for large classes and larger classrooms for the less busy subjects.

I just feel that this cohort is going to be even more screwed over than years 11 and 13

Yabu - years 10 and 12 don't need to be a priority
Yanbu years 10 and 12 need to go back after half term

I would also like orthodontists to open- but that is another thread!!
As you were....

Y6 would have covered most content by now as Sats was scheduled for tomorrow.

1 transition day in July would be fine. I really don't see why they have to go back.

@BornInAThunderstorm totally agree with you my child also has additional needs that need to be met before the move to secondary school, it wouldnt work just dumping my child off on the first day of secondary school, they need reassuring and being shown etc the way before they leave current schools.

My thoughts ... 1. Younger children could be more vulnerable or at risk when in bad home situations?

1. Childcare, hard to work from home with 4&5 year olds at home.
2. Reception children will struggle in year 1 without going back and having gradual transition?

Also primary school kids can be more easily contained and managed in terms of contact. Year 10s can't stay in one classroom with one group of kids because they're all doing different GCSE options with different class groups and different teachers - lots of trooping down narrow corridors etc.

pottery because they had 2 days notice when they left on 23rd March. Not everyone lives in a village or small area, and sees their friends out and about (in normal times). If they don't go back at all they will disperse to their various senior schools, some, like my DS, on his own. Even a couple of weeks to do an assembly, a sports day, a prize giving would be hugely beneficial. The health risk for that age is vanishingly small and if individual families have underlying conditions they can make their own choice not to send them.

I voted YANBU, but I did want to address this point:

I would have thought it'd be easier to socially distance year 10/12 than a bunch of primary school children.

-There are studies which suggest under 10s have a lower rate of transmission than other groups, and are at lower risk of complications of coronavirus (There are also studies that don't suggest this). So it's perhaps not just about social distancing, but also the risk of transmission too.

-Many Y10/12 students use public transport to get to school- increasing the risk to the wider population.

-If they walk to/from school, they are likely to do this in groups and possibly visit each other's houses.

-For Y12 especially, there's no point in going back to school if they can't be with their subject teachers. This means changing groups and interacting with 3-4 different adults at least. This is perhaps more risky than having Y6 children in in groups of 10 staying with one teacher all day.

-For Y10 students to access options subjects, the same applies, but with higher numbers of students. They could come in and just do core subjects though.

-If they're in school, it's likely they won't follow social distancing rules when they're not in school.

-Some secondary schools have really limited handwashing/toilet facilities.

-It's a larger number of students coming into school in total, and there may be pinchpoints such as exiting/leaving the school where it would be hard to socially distance 200-300+ people.

-Most Y12s have free periods- it would be hard to enforce social distancing during these (and there may be a lack of space), and if they can't get home easily it's hard to make them leave the school during this time period.

-Because the numbers are higher, you'd have more adults in school potentially interacting.

Obviously YR/1 won't social distance at all, but I don't think it's clear cut to say that Y10/12 can definitely do it better than Y6. Most Y6s can follow instructions as well as a 14/15yo (and they may be more compliant) and it's probably easier to facilitate say 30-60 kids socially distancing than 240+

No the whole cohort aren’t in the same position here.
It is not a level playing field.
Many public school children are having their full timetable with online access to all their lessons and teachers. Their days haven’t really changed- it’s just that they’re doing it from home.

The transition thing is a joke. The secondary schools won't be properly up and running. There will be no other key stage 3 kids in and they won't be able to sit in a normal.classroo. with their tutor group.

If primary schools go back, people can get back to work.

Exactly. I have 2 nephews doing A levels next year, and they are both motivated enough to self-study at home from a comprehensive programme set by their teachers. An essential skill to have when they go to University. My 7-year-old great-nephew does not, so is the most in need of school discipline.

Schools are primarily intended as childcare to enable parents to work. So the younger children will be the priority. Older children are more likely to be able to fend for themselves.

The whole cohort is in the same position here

I keep seeing this idea and it’s just not true. Some kids don’t have access to a computer and are doing no learning at all. Some are being given their full timetable of lessons online with a normal amount of work set, marked, fed back on. And all sorts in between.

They really aren’t all in the same position.

@MojoMoon its not technically true that everyone is in the same boat in Y10. Some schools haven't been teaching new topics just going over old work. Some schools are sending out new work but possibly only a couple of hours worth. Other schools, like the one DS goes to, is doing a full timetable with live lessons. he has to log in for registration and then has a full day, plus homework, so more than 6 hours a day schoolwork. And they are working their way through new topics. Still not as good as being in actual school, but better than a couple of revision worksheets that other schools are sending out.

Obviously this is giving DS a big advantage, which is good for him, but not necessarily fair on other students who may be on the same level academically as him, but not being given access to the same work.

I'd have thought Year 10nwould be about a week after Year 6 anyway.

@wonderbag there is more to teaching than delivering lessons over a video link. No child is getting the provision they normally would expect. The teacher can't circulate and offer help, they can't do group activities, they can't have discussions and debates in the same way, they can't mark work in the same way and the students get no instant feedback at all. Most importantly those who want to stare out of the window and not engage have complete freedom to do so.

At my secondary we are offering an excellent package of well organised, timetabled lessons each day all uploaded to the school website and some live stuff as well. The same students every week miss the lessons and fail to submit the work. It's not about private Vs state imo but it will widen the gap between the hardworking and those who are a bit lazy. I have one DC who is lazier than the other and I know if they were in year 10/12 I would be worried.

The whole cohort is in the same position here - grades required for sixth form or uni places will be adjusted to reflect that. A uni just wants to take the top 100 students it can get got a course - whether they get AAA once year and ABB the next year doesn't matter if they are still the top 100 students

Some yr12 students might be competing with yr13 students who take a year out and were given grades based on less work and predominantly class work. It isn't a level field.

Secondly the whole cohort is not in the same position. There will be dc in some private schools being given live online lessons, whereas dc in other schools are given a pack of notes and left to teach themselves. Children of parents who can stay at home can encourage some structure to learning even if they can't teach themselves. Children whose parents have to go out to work leaving their teenager at home just have to hope that they work rather than game or chat to friends all day. However they adjust the figures it will not accurately represent the actual performance of a child on the day in comparison with a theoretical identical child taking exams last year.

Primary schools are going back because of the economy.

@Poetryinaction

I'd have thought Year 10 would be about a week after Year 6 anyway.

Obviously it's not clear but my instinct is that this won't be the case. They are using the little ones as guinea pigs and they will want some data to show how R has been affected before they up the risk with secondary. Secondary classrooms are smaller. Secondary students tend to be more likely to spend social time indoors and there's a lot of physical contact so teenagers are more likely to speed the virus according to limited studies.

I suspect schools will be expected to provide childcare for the reception and year 1 rather than actually teaching them. I assume this will be clarified in the morning. The challenge at secondary will be managing the social distancing and teaching of year 10 and 12 while also remotely teaching years 7, 8 and 9.

It's also because the disease is considerably milder in the u10s than it is in the post pubescent.

They are starting younger because they expect less harm if it turns out that re-opening schools is too hadardous at this point.

Not just risk of death, but that of severe disease, prolonged time to recover and permanent lung damage.

I thought the pupils with exams were talked about in the next phase which was probably July.

I still don't think the "get back to work" situation is especially helped by limited primary school opening - for one surely there are many families who will have one child in R /Y1 and another child in a year above but not year 6, secondly if pupils are on a weird timetable for distancing and if after school care is not fully provided for them parents are going to have to do pick up and drop off without being able to get help from childminders/grandparents/friends/relatives.

I am not denying children with their own laptops and private schools and tutors will have it easier. Of course they will.

Children who go to better schools with better teachers and more resources and educated parents have always done better

Lockdown has not changed that. Possibly exacerbated it - but educational outcomes have always been primarily driven by parental wealth, so it's not new.

I just don't think it's a good idea to pile a load of pressure on current year 10s and year 12s that they will be permanently disadvantaged if they don't.......study for 12 hours a day or something.

They are mostly competing against each other (unis know what year you are in so they are perfectly capable of telling apart those who took their exams in certain years and/or if they were retakes)

And no one cares about your GCSE and a level grades once you are at uni.

It's just a gatekeeping mechanism and they are all going through the same gate at the same time (and those with the advantage of rich parents and/or private schools will continue to have the advantage they always have done while poor kids will be hampered as they always have done)

I have 2 nephews doing A levels next year, and they are both motivated enough to self-study at home from a comprehensive programme set by their teachers. An essential skill to have when they go to University.

@Jaxhog presumably you do realise that not all secondary school students are like this though? I've got a non-academic yr10 with mental health problems who will struggle to pass their GCSEs if they don't go back soon and a yr8 with SEN who is really missing their school routine and the support they get there.

I'm starting to feel really fucking angry at the disparity between already struggling state school students and private school students who have got their normal school day through online learning and won't face any disadvantage at all.

Not read the full thread, because the first few messages are going on about which years are most important. Obviously years 10 and 12 are educationally most important, but it's about the economy. If primary years can go back then people can go back to work. We'll have to sort years 10 and 12 out later. And I say that as somebody with a year 10 DC

I imagine year 6 is to support transition to secondary

Every parent I've spoken to believes their child's year group is the most important so on that basis I'm going to say, if you have kids in those year groups YABU because your biased
I disagree. I have kids in Year 8 and 11. I'm not worried about them. Year 8 dd will catch up. Year 11 had nearly finished the GCSE course and will get predicted grades. I'd be most worried if i had kids in Year 10 or 12.