To be pissed off at people who constantly say we need to fly less?

[lockdowncockdown]

I'm probably going to get flamed for this but here goes. Am I being unreasonable to be annoyed by the people who constantly say 'well, we need to fly less anyway'. Well, yes that's ok for you to say at 40/50 years old after you've spent the last 20 years flying all over the world and brandishing yourself as ' well travelled' and cultured. What about those of us in our early twenties like me who has been abroad four times in my whole life, not even to anywhere particularly exciting and I'm just about to finish university and was hoping to finally be able to travel a bit? It's ok to spout nonsense about flying less when you've been lucky and already had your experiences but I find it very hypocritical to want to deny others the same experiences that you were lucky enough to have.

Omgtherearenoplanes oh yes, I forgot about brexit too, thanks for reminding me.

@lockdowncockdown

I got 11 O levels and 3 A levels at good grades ( showing my age) and could not afford to go to university so have had to work my way up over many years to get to where I am now so probably lost out on a lot of earning potential . We never had plastic pollution with shopping like there is now and my daughter who is in her 30s has travelled more by plane in the last three years that I have in 15 . She also has a mortgage and a house .

I think you are generalising too much .

Also I would be interested to see how the gap year experience , Thailand, Vietnam etc etc will fare ,unless people consider other forms of transport.

Up until the ‘90’s flights were ridiculously expensive . We didn’t travel in our 20’s or 30’s because we couldn’t afford it. Then we had kids and couldn’t afford it. We had one family holiday a year either a cheap package holiday or somewhere in the uk.

But the grass is always greener.

OP I don’t know what you are complaint about?

You have no restrictions at all in terms of flying and there is talk of those restrictions coming in. We have more direct flights than ever.

COVID aside it’s never been more accessible to see the world! Your issue seem to be that a few left wingers are moaner about it.

Well said @HeckyPeck

It’s like that woman that I won’t even mention her name who said she wished Boris was dead . If you know that much about the world/ politics/ brexit/ the virus , then put yourself up for parliament and put your money where your mouth is .

There is always something you can do to help influence things .

Well, yes that's ok for you to say at 40/50 years old after you've spent the last 20 years flying all over the world and brandishing yourself as ' well travelled' and cultured. What about those of us in our early twenties like me who has been abroad four times in my whole life, not even to anywhere particularly exciting and I'm just about to finish university and was hoping to finally be able to travel a bit?

Not all of us have spent the last 20 years, or indeed 50 years, flying.

In my generation (born in the early 60s) young people travelled by train and bus. Flying was expensive then and not for the young- also we considered it not a proper adventure. Bit boring. I travelled on the coach or ferry+ train (whichever was the cheapest at the time) from Sweden to England twice a year to see my boyfriend. Only very wealthy and privileged youngsters travelled outside Europe. I didn't know any such people.

My parents, who could have done it, decided in the 50s (when holidaying by plane was already an option) that this was likely to be disastrous for the environment so they wouldn't do it. They also decided at the same time not to run a car. They had brilliant holidays: my childhood is filled with memories of waking up on a train station and looking out to see where we were or going down a narrow mountain road on a bus filled with locals and their market produce. My parents travelled all over Europe on public transport. They are certainly cultured: they speak about a dozen languages each- not least because of the practice they've had on their travels.

Dh and I did buy a car when our eldest became disabled, but otherwise we've stuck to the same principles. Only flying when necessary, sticking to holidays which were accessible by other means. That absolutely does not mean confining yourself to the UK. And some of our best trips, the ones that have felt most like adventures, have largely centred on walking.

My db is a fairly high-ranking academic: the kind who needs to go to conferences and meetings all over the place. Again, he only flies if absolutely necessary. And what he has found is that it very seldom is.

My parents aren't going to be around to see the havoc wrecked by climate change. They made their decisions with the wellbeing of your generation in mind, lockdown.

OP - I haven't read the whole thread, but scanned through.

I think you have had a tough response. I understand, I really do. I have two DD's your age, and I think you have been gifted a less than perfect legacy. All this recent talk of the "greatest generation". Yes, they may have won the war, but the messed up the peace. Listen to David Attenborough who, bless him, completely blames his generation for messing it up for this one. Too much consumerism, too high expectations, too little planning for the future, too little vision of what was the consequences of their actions.

Sadly, you will have to lower your expectations, and yes, that isn't fair. But as a previous pp noted, generations have had good and bad in all things, it's going to be up to you to put the previous generations mistakes in order.

You can still travel the world by other means

I do fel sorry for young people that have not had the opportunities to travel that older generations

I'm really not sure I buy into that for one moment. I'm probably similar to many here I can count on the fingers on my two hands the number of short haul flights I made before I got into my mid thirties and was 35 before I flew on a Long Haul flight..School trips to Africa/China/South America - you are kidding - ski holidays..nope..

OTOH spend any time around an airport or on an aircraft these days and there are an awful lot of the younger generation milling around...(and I think the irony of wearing a save the Planet themed Tee shirt in such circumstances is lost on some passengers).

I’m with you OP. I’m sure I will also get flamed but I have no intention of going on holiday any less, which in my case is always by flight to somewhere outside of the UK. Very happy to pay extra to offset carbon emissions, whatever that may be. The number of flights will always be dictated by supply and demand, as well as government intervention in terms of taxation etc.
That said I’d be very happy to do more business meetings via zoom and similar VC systems.

OP - YANBU. IME those howling at others for being irresponsible with their air travel are of the same breed as the Neighbourhood Prefects repetitiously chanting 'stay home, save lives' and making up their own interpretations as to what The Rules actually involve. It's the same kind of rhetoric as the 'don't fly, save the planet' variety. And it's interesting that a lot of the people spouting it have no intention of sticking The Rules themselves, but believe the burden should fall to others who are less important than themselves. Case in point: the Windsor family.

There's no need to go to these extremes and chuck out the baby with the bathwater. Interestingly enough, the aviation industry are (albeit belatedly) taking their green commitments much more seriously. Granted these changes won't be effected overnight, and we've had the technology to do most of this stuff since WWII so it begs the question of why we haven't done so many decades earlier.

But you can Google Heathrow and look at the many measures they are taking to provide a greener, cleaner environment both on the ground and in the air. There's a lower-carbon, recycled aviation fuel being trialled even now (this is the stuff the Germans were using in the war) and you can read about that here:

www.edie.net/news/8/Virgin-Atlantic-to-trial-low-carbon--recycled--jet-fuel-from-next-month/

Many of the UK's major airports are taking on similar initiatives to reduce carbon impact. Big corporations are making a commitment to reduce their ridiculously excessive packaging. The last diesel- and petrol-fuelled cars will be sold within a couple of decades.

There is a limit to the difference individual end users can make, albeit I do what I can to reduce my personal impact. I have no choice but to commute to work and will still fly, but fair to say I'll never go on a cruise again considering the monstrous pollution those ships kick out. If big corporations, transportation industries, power suppliers and nations pull together, they can (and are) addressing this issue as the matter of urgency it is.

Flying and travel is with us to stay. Bleating at people to stop doing it will have zero impact so better IMO to expend energy on what is actually achievable.

I think there are extremes here. A lot of people commenting here in their 50s/60s have never flown or only flown 4 times whereas a lot of people in that age bracket (and other age brackets!) will definitely have had one or more foreign holidays for years.
I think all generations have had different challenges or obstacles and I get a bit frustrated at the "entitled millenials" trope as I do think there are things that will be a lot harder for this generation (before even thinking about paying for covid 19) . Similarly I don't think boomers or older generations had everything easier.
I think it would be amazing if, as a pp mentioned there were advances in cleaner/greener air travel. I've booked a long haul flight for December - the last long haul flight I took was in 1998. Both trips were for having a holiday with family that live far away. I'm hoping the December one can still go ahead...

Stop knocking the older generations. Why is it there fault? You can fly as much as you want. I was under the impression that it was the younger generations that say you should fly less.

But of cause it’s the older generations that get the blame yeah there the ones that have to ferry you around in cars because your legs don’t work.
We’re the ones that have to travel for work to get you the latest gadgets So your faces didn’t look like smacked arses. And whey you grew up you wanted the new cars, new gadgets, taxi of mum and dad.

Sorry but you need to look at how selfish you were as a child before blaming the older generations they done it for you.

When I was growing up and you wanted to go somewhere you walked/ biked / or even shock horror used public transport.

After seeing some of my friends die to early I have come to the decision that I’m going to fit as much into life as possible and if that means flying then so be it. What’s the point of being the richest person in the cemetery.

I'm also in my twenties and I think YABU sort of. We do need to fly less, but it's more the pointless business flights, the people who holiday 10 times a year. The extremes.

Yes and no. I do feel extremely lucky to have been able to travel with relative ease to some of the seven wonders of the world, and its strange to think that my children may only be able to watch documentaries about those places. But air travel for sun/drinking holidays has become so routine - many of my colleagues, not wealthy people, did this several times a year.
The cheap airlines have made it easy to travel, but at an environmental cost that cannot be sustainable even before covid.

I'm in my 40's and have traveled a lot in my life so far, but I'm trying to fly less and think we all need to cut back.

The world was an exciting place to travel around in the decades leading up to the 90's, but over the past 20 years, mass tourism and cheap flights have resulted in an encroaching, bland homogeneity. This has been massively exacerbated by the Instagram era.

The damage done just isn't worth it.

I haven't had a gap year traveling - yet

The virus has shown us all that we only have one life & that we should aim to do the things that we enjoy, if possible

Therefore, once lockdown has eased. I will be planning even more trips in my home & abroad - not less

I went to Europe twice last year on the ferry/coach

Airports have been expanding, not decreasing every year to keep up with demand, until this virus

It was your choice to go to university

If you want property, work, save, relocate to a cheaper area

We’re the ones that have to travel for work to get you the latest gadgets So your faces didn’t look like smacked arses. And whey you grew up you wanted the new cars, new gadgets, taxi of mum and dad

Hmm... to be honest if you’re buying the latest gadgets for your kids purely so their ‘faces don’t look like snacked arses’ it might be time to have a rethink of your parenting? If I’d had a face like a smacked arse at the lack of a gadget it most certainly wouldn’t have made my parents go out and buy me one, quite the opposite!
DH’s family live abroad, we fly to see them. Less flying just equals less chance to see our family, which is a shame.

Fuzzyduck, you have no idea whatsoever of my background growing up. My mum was a single parent of two children who spent a period of my childhood on benefits. I went to a school in special measures and I've worked bloody hard retaking my GCSE's and doing a foundation year to claw my way back. Privileged I was not. There was certainly no 'mums taxi' or flying with work to pay for my gadgets going on here. I'm not an entitled brat my any means and I didn't grow up expecting things to be handed to me.

You inherit the world at the time of your birth. You could have entered the world during any of the last 200,000 years but your time was now. Suck it up.

What a blaming whining Meme .

FFS

OP I think you've been misled. For most people in their 50's, their childhood summer holidays were a wet week in a caravan in Colwyn Bay.

Most people in their 50's didn't get to go to university at all.

It's fine to want to travel, but don't fall for the fallacy that it was a regular thing until very recently.

And as PP have said, look at inter railing, or working your way around the world. You live in a planet that is better connected than ever before and can have amazing adventures. Your generation will still see far more of the world than previous generations.

I still am at a loss as to how people think the younger generation have it worse when it comes to flying? It’s quite literally never been easier of cheaper!

Last October my family and I went from buying Pringles in WH Smith Heathrow to watching lions in the Masai Mara within 14 hours. 25 years ago - that would have taken 3 days!

I’m not sure what there is to complain about - as I said it’s never been easier or cheaper.

I get your point, but basically it's tough luck tbh. It's no good saying "It's not fair!" - the environmental situation is what it is. We can't go back in time and make older people travel less. All we can do is try to improve the situation now.