To be pissed off at people who constantly say we need to fly less?

[lockdowncockdown]

I'm probably going to get flamed for this but here goes. Am I being unreasonable to be annoyed by the people who constantly say 'well, we need to fly less anyway'. Well, yes that's ok for you to say at 40/50 years old after you've spent the last 20 years flying all over the world and brandishing yourself as ' well travelled' and cultured. What about those of us in our early twenties like me who has been abroad four times in my whole life, not even to anywhere particularly exciting and I'm just about to finish university and was hoping to finally be able to travel a bit? It's ok to spout nonsense about flying less when you've been lucky and already had your experiences but I find it very hypocritical to want to deny others the same experiences that you were lucky enough to have.

Agree with you completely OP and now suddenly MN seems full of people who have never been abroad or flown once in 40 years hmmm. As one of the oldies that you refer to I have been able to take advantage of cheap flights across Europe and done so fairly regularly. Saying that you have no right to expect the same is like saying that we must deny countries like China and India the same living standards that we have enjoyed for decades. They wouldn't buy that hypocrisy and why should they? There is also more to this than simply how often you fly. First-class travellers emit far more carbon emissions than economy flyers; a bit like a bus running full versus having one passenger. & then you have wider issues like the cost of a return flight for four to somewhere like Tallin being cheaper than a return rail fare for two from the Midlands to London, which is pure madness. It is time for us oldies to sit up and start listening to your generation and start DOING something. Like not flying. That's me btw not you. Climate change deniers such as Trump and Bolsonaro are the ones doing the real harm not youngsters like you wanting to see a bit of the world. I can't stand the selfish attitude of some people who think that you should be perfectly accepting of mopping up the damage done by others who have gone before you. That includes me and I'm doing what I can to make a difference instead of telling you to get over it. You are right to feel aggrieved.

There are plenty of lines of business where travel is essential, for example those where the buyer or whoever is sealing the deal needs to travel and see and perhaps even feel the goods before making the deal

In a lot of cases, they could air freight samples to the buyer. You can fit a lot more small items on a plane than people and they don't need sending back after someone has looked at them. Far cheaper too.

I'm quite astonished that business people have apparently been travelling the world to look at things they plan to buy or to have meetings. That seems quite mad in the internet era even when we're not forced not to do it by circumstance.

Are the anti business flying proponents now all willing to migrate to on-line shopping to avoid car journeys

There's quite a difference between me dropping into a supermarket on the way home from work or even driving there as a one off trip and a business person flying to China to examine goods or New York to talk business.

We do need to fly less.

Sorry if that means you can’t go on holiday exactly how you’d like.

I’d have thought younger people would be more worried about older generations wrecking the planet, frankly.

For various reasons I'm sure as a family we will fly less in the future. I'll miss travelling as much but can see how it could make a huge difference.

A few threads recently on MN though about people's need and deliberate plan to have 3, 4, 5 kids which they may or may not be able to afford but without any doubt, the planet cannot. Yet this is often ok to many as it's a biological yearning so not easy to resist or some other bollocks...

Flying isn't the only luxury.

My 20 DSD had three holidays abroad last year. That's two more than I had. YABVVU in thinking that just older people travel a lot.

@tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz I can understand 3 kids being desired if the first two dc were girls or boys and the family desperately wanted one of the other etc. I guess the difference between flying and having kids is that hopefully they will all become productive members of society so the good outweigh the negative in this case.

There's quite a difference between me dropping into a supermarket on the way home from work or even driving there as a one off trip and a business person flying to China to examine goods or New York to talk business.

This.

I don't think it's particularly realistic suggesting you never fly, but there's a big difference between flying once every two or three years, and five or six times a year.

I feel reasonably well travelled and haven't flown much - Think I flew short haul twice and long haul two or three times in my twenties.

Of course we do OP.

You’ve heard of climate change haven’t you?

Flying will become much more expensive, so fewer people will fly, like in the past

love to a degree I suppose but it's absolutely in many cases still a luxury. And if everything who wanted another followed the biological urge to do so the consequences to the planet of that decision en masse will screw us before those children are able to contribute anything.

@tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz I fully agree and I do think we should encourage people to have 3 births or less but not sure how something like that would look like

In a lot of cases, they could air freight samples to the buyer. You can fit a lot more small items on a plane than people and they don't need sending back after someone has looked at them

Glad you said a "lot of cases"... so obviously not in all cases, and of course if the item for sale weighs much more than 75 kg or so (machinary, etc) then it's still probably more carbon efficient for the buyer/negotiator to fly out to the seller and back rather than fly a sample out one way and then junk it.

TBH idea being expressed by one or two that there is no need for business travel at all....well....it might work for some businesses but not for all.

...

Makes you wonder how our ancestors managed all those centuries, sometimes, doesn't it....

After the war my grandparents travelled all over Europe (apart from France as grandpa refused to go back) - by road.

If you think of a few generations back, loads of people would never even leave their county, let alone country.

I'll be hotfooting it to the airport as soon as I can.

I love to travel, and the very idea of a UK 'holiday' is making me miserable. It's just about the least attractive place I can imagine. Awful weather, unimpressive views, everyone speaks English, shit food, criminally overpriced.

Nah. I'll be going somewhere that's actually interesting and actually beautiful to see.

You have been going to the wrong places then. People travel from all over the globe to visit this wet, unimpressive, English-speaking island with its shit overpriced food and lack of views...

You have been going to the wrong places then. People travel from all over the globe to visit this wet, unimpressive, English-speaking island with its shit overpriced food and lack of views

To be fair, if you were born and raised in the UK, then obviously you want to see something different. I am not from the UK so can see some of the charm (but the weather is as shit as everyone says)

I'm from Scotland - the most amazing places I've been in the world have had even shittier weather (stinking hot and humid and bloody freezing)

@lordfrontpaw Scotland is my most favourite place ever! If flights are too expensive I’m gonna have to brave the drive from Brighton to Edinburgh!

Lordfrontpaw

After the war my grandparents travelled all over Europe (apart from France as grandpa refused to go back) - by road.

As did I, by Inter-Rail. It was brilliant. (Not after the war, late70s\early 80s.)

Cusano34 - the drive along north east coast is amazing.

Dad was stationed in Italy for his national service (early 50s) and travelled around when he was there (sounds very skooshy actually) and had a blast. I’ve taken the train from Glasgow to the south of France.

It’s perfectly do-able without flights and back in ye olde ages the journey really was an exciting part of the holiday.

Are the anti business flying proponents now all willing to migrate to on-line shopping to avoid car journeys

I happily shop online. I prefer online supermarket shopping but of course you can't get delivery slots at the moment.

Awful weather, unimpressive views, everyone speaks English, shit food, criminally overpriced

Blimey, the weather can be amazing, were you here in 2018, have you ever been to Scotland or the Gower or the Antrim Coast for views, isn't ease of communication a good thing, I hate being the stupid Brit who can't speak the local language (and I do speak German and some French and Italian), food is very good, but you have to choose carefully - as for the overpriced, given the £ to euro exchange rate everywhere is expensive.

Are the anti business flying proponents now all willing to migrate to on-line shopping to avoid car journeys
Most people don’t have cars where I live. I don’t. We don’t do online shopping either.