To be pissed off at people who constantly say we need to fly less?

[lockdowncockdown]

I'm probably going to get flamed for this but here goes. Am I being unreasonable to be annoyed by the people who constantly say 'well, we need to fly less anyway'. Well, yes that's ok for you to say at 40/50 years old after you've spent the last 20 years flying all over the world and brandishing yourself as ' well travelled' and cultured. What about those of us in our early twenties like me who has been abroad four times in my whole life, not even to anywhere particularly exciting and I'm just about to finish university and was hoping to finally be able to travel a bit? It's ok to spout nonsense about flying less when you've been lucky and already had your experiences but I find it very hypocritical to want to deny others the same experiences that you were lucky enough to have.

14%

@Oliversmumsarmy can you actually realistically see any government being able to force everyone to go vegan? it's easier to just increase the cost of fights and to at least help the problem a little

@oliversmumsarmy, but going vegan won't reduce emissions by 14% because people will replace their meat & dairy with something else, be it pay milk, Quorn, pulses or whatever. Are those alternatives lower carbon? Most evidence indicates that they are, but the total carbon reduction will be nothing like the 14% you mention.

I think those who make the argument that aviation is only responsible for 2-3% of emissions are missing the point that aviation is one one of the (few?) sectors where emissions are still rising, and fairly rapidly. In the 5 years to 2018 emissions from aviation increased by more than 30%. If that rate were to continue, emissions from aviation will have doubled by 2026 (compared to 2013 levels). I don't think flights need to be banned completely, but many of us should consider reducing our flights, taking fewer but longer breaks would be one place to start. I know of one one workplace that gives employees extra annual leave if they travel to their holiday destination by public transport (to offset the extra travel time) - I'd like to see more of that happen too. And tax aviation fuel to subsidise public transport.

I am demonising an entire industry because it is nothing but destructive, and for no reason. It is not necessary. Land, food, water, these things are necessary.

These are what we need to consider as we start to lose land to the sea, not electronic figures whizzing around global screens. No country is immune. Britain, already overpopulated and already unable to feed its own population, is much more vulnerable than that population realises.

We know better now then we did 50 years ago.

It’s like saying “ohhh it’s unfair I can’t have a pet tiger, everyone 60 years ago got to have one and I missed out”

Mango are you honestly saying that in the face of rising seas and sinking islands -not some nebulous theory, it is happening right now - we should do nothing? No mitigation, no reduction, keep the pedal to the metal and increase the pace of consumption?

If so what exactly is your stake in this? Are you trying to complete your billionaire’s retreat in NZ’s hills and looking forward to a low population world or something?

OK, so you fly because an older generation did, and then it’s fair...

That should have said mango st al btw.

Aargh! Typos!

In 2018, business travel only accounted for 16% of UK air travel with a downward trend.

I also think flying will revert to being prohibitively expensive for the "likes of us" (not Emz77 obvs ).

Dammit.

It will be out of reach for most of you have to take 2 weeks off to isolate after your holiday!!

Sorry I got your name wrong emz771

But that is life isn’t things go up and down dependent on so many factors.

20 years ago a lot of fish was considered a cheap meal - now fish is one of the most expensive things to buy because of over fishing and other various factors.

Our local fishmongers closed last year. He said he retired - but if it was a massively profitable business you imagine somebody would have brought it.

It’s like so much in life if you can’t afford it you can’t buy it.

I think those who make the argument that aviation is only responsible for 2-3% of emissions are missing the point that aviation is one one of the (few?) sectors where emissions are still rising, and fairly rapidly. In the 5 years to 2018 emissions from aviation increased by more than 30%

And yet, it is still less than 3% despite all this growth.

Mango are you honestly saying that in the face of rising seas and sinking islands -not some nebulous theory, it is happening right now - we should do nothing? No mitigation, no reduction, keep the pedal to the metal and increase the pace of consumption?

We are talking about the aviation industry. And I said it’s so little in terms of overall emissions it’s not worth worrying about.

If you want to make big cuts in emissions, there are great ways to do it. Nuclear power generation, moving from coal to natural gas, encouraging further urbanisation (hard sell after coronavirus though), electrification of consumer-grade vehicles, etc. etc.

All these will help way more than shaming people for flying. These also have the advantage of allowing people to maintain or improve their standard of living, which cannot be forgotten about.

@MangoFeverDream We are already one of the greenest engry country there is but it is still a long process. Surely that until we can say we are 100% green we could agrue every little effort helps

I travel by air about every other year, long haul, and will hopefully continue to do so once we're free to do so and will feel no guilt about it. It's unreasonable to expect a few countries with a pc agenda foisted upon them to carry the whole burden of responsibility for global warning. Until every country accepts their share, I'll keep my bags packed!

This is an interesting article.
grist.org/climate/the-world-is-on-lockdown-so-where-are-all-the-carbon-emissions-coming-from/

I mean if ALL this means such a small drop, we really need to contentrate on infrastructure rather than bullying people over flights and steaks.

Business flights should absolutely be vastly reduced as they're completely unnecessary - seems unfair to deny the "average' family their annual 2 weeks in the sun though..

but going vegan won't reduce emissions by 14% because people will replace their meat & dairy with something else

At least it won’t fart and instead of taking up millions and millions of acres growing food purely to feed the animals would we need to actually have to find more areas to grow food?
No government is going to enforce veganism but it could say if you don’t buy meat or dairy you get discounts on air fare and if you do buy meat and dairy then your air fare has an extra tax on it.

I usually drive if we go to Europe. But I like to go further afield as well and boats make me dreadfully sea sick.

Business flights should absolutely be vastly reduced as they're completely unnecessary - seems unfair to deny the "average' family their annual 2 weeks in the sun though

In Dps previous job he flew every other week almost. He wouldn’t have been able to do his job without actually being present at the offices all over the world.

However he was saying that since lock down where people have been forced to do conference calls and zoom meetings he thinks they will definitely cut down the number of flights people take for business or at least make companies think twice before booking a flight

Rising asthma, climate change, melting ice caps, flooding, if we can all fly less and look after the environment then our children and children's children may live without food and water shortages ... on the other hand ... ...

My dh doesn't fly business to work but he HAS to fly to get to work so unfortunately there is no other option.

Business flights should absolutely be vastly reduced as they're completely unnecessary

There are plenty of lines of business where travel is essential, for example those where the buyer or whoever is sealing the deal needs to travel and see and perhaps even feel the goods before making the deal..

If that's not done you might end up with a sub-standard product such as PPE not fit for purpose...

How many grumbles have we had in this place during "lockdown" about on-line supermarket shopping not working as advertised and supermarkets substituting inferior brands/products? Are the anti business flying proponents now all willing to migrate to on-line shopping to avoid car journeys?

OP I'm in my 50's and travelled a bit in my 20's but little since having kids mainly due to the cost. Yes it is a shame for you, but when I and other's like me travelled in our generation, the amount of air travel was relatively lower. It is now clearly evident that the planet cannot cope, what do you think future generations will make of your attitude, entitled perhaps? Also, as a previous poster has said, stop tarring everyone with the same brush. Your attitude towards other generations are those that fuel the divisions in society, We are where we are. for the record I've flown a total of 8 times in my life (2 of those for work)

The facts that we have cleaner air, Venice canals with dolphins and other unusual fish in them, the hole in the ozone layer has reportedly been healed, and India has blue skies where there was smog to the ground shows we need to make dramatic changes to our way of life. This has all happened within weeks of there being far less traffic both on the ground and in the air.

Unless we use electric cars, I hope we never return to the traffic of the past.