To be pissed off at people who constantly say we need to fly less?

[lockdowncockdown]

I'm probably going to get flamed for this but here goes. Am I being unreasonable to be annoyed by the people who constantly say 'well, we need to fly less anyway'. Well, yes that's ok for you to say at 40/50 years old after you've spent the last 20 years flying all over the world and brandishing yourself as ' well travelled' and cultured. What about those of us in our early twenties like me who has been abroad four times in my whole life, not even to anywhere particularly exciting and I'm just about to finish university and was hoping to finally be able to travel a bit? It's ok to spout nonsense about flying less when you've been lucky and already had your experiences but I find it very hypocritical to want to deny others the same experiences that you were lucky enough to have.

I'm not just talking about because of the corona virus, I'm talking about those who say we need to fly less anyway because of climate change.

But we do 🤷🏼‍♀️

I’m in my 40s and not particularly well travelled. I haven’t set foot on a plane since 2013.

Silly to blame "the older generation". People have been protesting about the environmental impact for decades. Some people chose to ignore the warnings - just like you.

Forget Covid-19. This is the most significant battle we will face in our lifetimes.

This is so true.

Have you even considered all the negatives of stopping or cutting down globally travel?

We do need to fly less. This is true.

We have absolutely no right whatsoever to experience Mikey bloody mouse at Disneyland. Yes it’s nice I’m sure. We might do it if we are able but my god it’s not a right!!!!!

Although, my experience is that it’s the over-50s who are the biggest, because they are the only ones who can afford it. They are the generation that have had the biggest disposal incomes as a class
this is a massive over-generalisation.
I am over 70 - my net income is £13k PER YEAR
I have never been in a position to take mega-cruises and multiple long haul flights per year. In my entire life (working for at least 40 years) I have only flown 5 times.
I do hate the demonisation of any generation - young or old - each generation is made up of millions of people. Some are rich, some are struggling, ;some are selfish and massively entitled while others are hard-working, honest and admirable. None of us asked to be born at a certain time and we sure as hell cannot change our generation.

I still don’t understand why so many people think it’s their right to inflict themselves on other areas of the planet. Like those who must go swimming with dolphins or see the pyramids. I’m really happy that they’re there and enjoy looking at photos or documentaries, I don’t need to get on a plane and go there.

This.

As a denizen of one of the bits of the planet that people seem to think they HAVE TO SEE for themselves I really can't work out what a lot of them get from it. They drive here (probably after having flown into the country) take a few pictures out of their car window - or having stopped in one of the passing places on a single track road (That's not what they are for you fuckwits!) buy a few 'authentic' souvenirs (more often than not made in China) and fuck off again leaving us locals clearing up their mess - there is SO much less litter on our roads than usual at the moment.

But emz771 only a tiny handful of people in the UK, let alone the rest of the world, will ever be able to experience those things. Is it morally justifiable to destroy villages in Bangladesh and Fiji through flooding so that your five year old can swim with sharks?

Star, that’s not an argument for flight, that’s an argument for better internal rail transport connections. Which I would support absolutely, as would most. It’s disgraceful that flight has been pushed at the expense of public transport links. The connections to London are usually quite smooth, by the way, the usual problem is travel between other places.

I didn’t say it was a right!

It’s really not quite that simple - there would be so many negatives of stopping or cutting down travel.

@lockdowncockdown I want to do things other generations did too. Doesn’t mean I can or should.
I’d love to let my kids play out like I did as a child, I can’t.
I’d love to be able to buy a house on one income.
You shouldn’t fly more, because our world has changed. I shouldn’t let me kids out to play on the street / in the village because life has changed. My parents locked me in the car whilst they went to the pub. Love to do that these days frankly (corona aside)

Equally you get a bunch of advantages as a millennial. Not seeing you giving those up right?

Life changes. Get over it. You are not living in a war zone or forced to join national service. Life just changes!

If you have children, you can't moan at people for flying

^^ This. The annual carbon footprint of even one child is about 40 times a return transatlantic flight, so you could be flying to New York every month and have a far lower carbon footprint than a parent of two children.

www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/12/want-to-fight-climate-change-have-fewer-children

I agree with reducing business travel and hopefully one positive to come out of the coronavirius crisis is that flying on business for meetings isn't always necessary and many can be done online. Massively cheaper and more time efficient too.

But as a childfree person who also consumes less than many people (low meat diet, wastes hardly anything, keeps clothes, phones, appliances for years or decades not weeks, months etc) l will not reduce the foreign holidays that I take (average three short-haul trips a year) or feel guilty about it.

1st world problems much.

Do you know in a normal year only 2% of the worlds population will go on a plane.

Be glad that you have the chance to fall into that 2%, then use your privilege wisely.

I'm sure we can and will fly less in the future, many meetings and commerce forums have successfully been conducted over internet meeting apps over the past few months. Flying for these reasons might not be necessary now and will be cheaper and more productive for business. Some people will still need to fly to practically provide their expertise for some businesses i.e service technicians etc.
After all of this Covid ends/ reduces there will definitely be less airlines, less seat capacity so flights will be more expensive if demand remains.
I think some people do just travel for the sake of it when they barely know their own country, perhaps we will rediscover things closer to home and help or own tourism economy first to re-establish.

Travelled all over Europe by train in the 80s. My friend ,(in her 50s) is planning to visit india next year and doing all travel there by train. Another friend (20s) bought a bus in the UK and he and his friends travelled around Mongolia for a summer.

You can get to india, Mongolia, Russia, China, Thailand etc by train and road. Quick ferry ride across the channel and you're all good. Not flying doesn't stop you travelling, it just it being easy and convenient.

I lived in Cambodia for 4 years and most of the backpackers who fly in were not having real adventures. They spend a day in each place, tick it off the list and move on. Didn't speak to locals unless they were serving them, didnt want to learn about the culture, ignored customs (no it not acceptable to visit a Buddhist temple in a bikini top and hot pants!) and complained about the local on a dollar a day ripping them of for 10 cents.

I think you will find that children are rather more of an essential for the human race than flying. The question of how much of a footprint they take up is complicated and culturally-determined. It can be unpicked and reduced, but the non-essentials are, by definition, so easy to knock out that it’s pathetic it hasn’t already been done.

I wouldn't care if I never got near the aiport/flying experience ever again.

Am guessing there will temperature checks, quarantine, reduction of services etc. at departure and arrival. Can imagine a five hour wait to get on board, and similar hassle at destination. Nope, not for me.

Anyway, I do realise that some people MUST travel by air for certain reasons, but going forward there might just be this happening in order of merit....

1. Essential/emergency/family
2. Essential business
3. Leisure.

I am travelling the world now on Google Maps and it's great. The real armchair traveller now!

I didn’t play any role in WW2 but I’m not on here bleating about the particular deprivations of growing up or arriving at maturity when I did.

Part of my point was that the UK government is Londoncentric plus it assumes everyone has access to a car. There are whole areas of the country where there are no bus or train links even to nearby towns. It's all very well for the powers that be to say on your bike but carrying shopping along a country road with no pavement on the back of a bike or going home in winter along the same road after work in the dark is frightening and not something I'd be prepared to do.
The government needs to bring back proper public transport to enable us to get rid or at least cut down on car use

I was speaking to someone the other day that flew to Dubai for a 2 HR meeting. 6 of them did it, some of which did not need to be there. That kind of ridiculousness needs to stop.

Do you know in a normal year only 2% of the worlds population will go on a plane

Citation please. Asia has a lot of discount carriers geared to the local market so I’m not sure about that one. I think in China’s top eight cities, at least half had taken a flight in the past. (That’s just what I am aware)

In fact, there is little difference in price in China, for example, between taking the high speed train and taking a flight. Sometimes it was even cheaper to take the flight 🤷‍♀️

I am ‘older generation’ and when I was your age I had not been abroad 4 times and it was still expensive to do and no one took it for granted.

We didn’t fly off to Greece, we took the ‘Magic Bus’, and we went many other places by coach, too. No terms or young adults had cars unless their families were very wealthy.

I have travelled abroad, by air, more in recent years, as fares became relatively cheaper for everyone.

Your future, OP. Lots of places will be far less attractive to visit once sea level had risen and temperatures make more places hot and arrid.

Mango, do you imagine much of the population of the African / Indian continents are hopping in planes? Cambodia? Laos? Vietnam?

I do think people are being short sighted.

Look I care about the planet - and I do believe with all the technology huge companies have a responsibility to fly less.

However do you understand how bad the world would get without travel. Just a few examples.

1. millions are spent in rangers to protect endangered animals. In Rwanda they even employ ex military to protect the gorillas at a large cost. Without our tourism dollar the rhino, the gorilla, the leopard gone - never coming back. Poached to extinction- for Chinese medicine etc.

2. Somewhere like the Maldives has a 40% GDP on tourism. That’s a country without feee healthcare etc - ripped of nearly half its economy. People would literally be without food and medicine.

3. we go to Dubai for January sun - and it’s super rare to have a waiter etc from The UAE. They are usually from counties where they are zero opportunities. They do a few years there to pay for their kids schooling, support elderly parents etc.

Think - it’s not black and white.