To be pissed off at people who constantly say we need to fly less?

[lockdowncockdown]

I'm probably going to get flamed for this but here goes. Am I being unreasonable to be annoyed by the people who constantly say 'well, we need to fly less anyway'. Well, yes that's ok for you to say at 40/50 years old after you've spent the last 20 years flying all over the world and brandishing yourself as ' well travelled' and cultured. What about those of us in our early twenties like me who has been abroad four times in my whole life, not even to anywhere particularly exciting and I'm just about to finish university and was hoping to finally be able to travel a bit? It's ok to spout nonsense about flying less when you've been lucky and already had your experiences but I find it very hypocritical to want to deny others the same experiences that you were lucky enough to have.

What a silly thread to start and your timing after VE Day a couple of day ago is shocking, grow up

your timing after VE day? What can you possibly mean?

It's not people travelling once per year that is the problem. It's the useless business travel done by wealthy white-collared people (often mandated by multinational corporations) that needs to go. Meetings can be held over Zoom. End of story.

Milktray it depends on what your interests are, but I go on UK trips to swim in the sea, run or cycle in the countryside, to see nice scenery (the Scottish highlands are every bit as impressive as the Alps), or to visit historic monuments and museums (there is nothing like Hadrian’s Wall, Fountains Abbey, the Tate Modern or Canterbury Cathedral in the Maldives). I’m fair skinned, so actually don’t want to lie in the sun all day.

Other people might want a spa break, or to visit a Michelin-starred restaurant, or to go to the theatre. Kids generally like the beach, and most will enjoy camping.

It may not be to your taste, which is fair enough, but there is plenty of genuinely cool stuff to see and do in the UK. And most of Northern Europe is culturally pretty similar - going round an Austrian or French supermarket is much the same as going round Tesco. If you are looking for genuine cultural differences you need to be going long-haul, which is obviously out of reach for many, and not really justifiable multiple times a year even for those of us who could afford to.

Yes, I have full respect and admiration for those who fought in the war but anyone born after 1945 has not fought a war in this country have they? So anyone under 75 is the generation that I'm talking about. I don't see what the war has got to do with this whatsoever

Just because you can't/shouldn't fly doesn't mean you can't travel.

It essentially does mean that for us. Unless we can fly we are stuck in our own country. On a big island. Forever. Not really the stuff dreams are made of. We need to be able to fly for much needed conferences that would be impossible to do remotely, hands on learning for new techniques etc. In addition to that, it’s just common sense to see/experience different parts of the world and cultures or it would lead to the making of insular thinking in future generations.

And before anyone says take a boat, it takes something like 6 weeks to get to somewhere like the UK where you can normally do it in under 2 days with a flight.

@comingintomyown - What a silly thread to start and your timing after VE Day a couple of day ago is shocking, grow up

What role did you play during WW2? It would be great to read about someone's actual experience.

Some people do need to fly less. You would be amazed how often some people fly. It's not so much people taking 1-2 trips per year (which is plenty to allow you to see the world over time), it's those who take 10+ long haul flights per year, big corporations that fly hundreds of delegates to pointless conferences they could do via Zoom, and people who fly to second homes 20 times a year. If they all flew less that would have an enormous impact.

Perhaps age isn’t the best indicator here. Unthinking consumers of throwaway culture are every age. Although, my experience is that it’s the over-50s who are the biggest, because they are the only ones who can afford it. They are the generation that have had the biggest disposal incomes as a class. Op I’m mid-40s and often have the same frustration with the older generations having enjoyed so much that they deny to us. It’s not us mid-40s you have to thank. But we have to live with the mess now, and flying to foreign lands is not sustainable. I’ve flown twice in my life, and I never expected to be doing so again anyway.

You are completely unreasonable.

It may not be ‘fair’ that flying will become more expensive, more difficult and more discouraged as you grow older. It may be disappointing.

But there is an ongoing climate emergency that will require all of us to change our way of life in order to save the productive capacity of the planet.

Forget Covid-19. This is the most significant battle we will face in our lifetimes.

We have to bring back the idea that the travel itself is part of the experience. We can get to elsewhere in Europe without planes: travel across Europe was perfectly possible in historical times fgs.

I do quite agree there are wonderful places in The UK and we love visiting Cornwall - but seriously come on.

Diving with great whites in South Africa, trekking Lion on foot in Kenya, seeing your 5 year olds face light up at breakfast with Mickey Mouse in Florida, climbing the Great Wall of China as a family, getting the boat to within feet of Niagara Falls, the view of Rio from Christ The Redeemer, etc - you can’t do any of that within a train ride of The UK and people should be allowed to experience that.

people should be allowed to experience that.

Why??
What’s the price??

Because it’s wonderful.

I’m sure your not suggesting we all stay within a few hundred miles of home.

I will continue to fly. The idea of "holidaying" in the UK makes me want to weep.

And this is a “right”??

We are animals. We are born, we live, we die. What is this “right” you have to kill all others so you can see something no more spectacular than what we have right here in Europe?

Parts of Cornwall are beautiful, we still enjoy a quick CP break as ours are just about young enough, but on the whole yes I agree with you.

The worlds a big place and I want to see most of it!

It’s not a right - but it is a luxury many enjoy.

I think we may see a shift to people taking fewer, longer trips due to the increased cost of air travel. Personally, I would like to see some sort of "air mileage allowance" or emissions bank, whereby each person has an allowance of air travel. If you don't use it, you can "sell" it to someone else. No idea of how it would work, it's just a wish of mine really. But ideally your personal and business travel allowance would be one, so that people who travel a lot for work can't also then take lots of personal flights. That would hopefully make it hard for the big wasteful flight-guzzling corporates to recruit good staff if they carry on with their insistance on flying to meetings!

I don't believe that flight rationing will ever exist in the future
Because, if you can afford the time & money then you can go
It is pay as you go

Exactly, the same for the companies that are planning zero gravity flights & leisure trips to the moon

And you will destroy that world to get what the great ‘you’ wants??

My dh has to fly for work so he really has no choice! Sorry...

OP As you are smart enough to be at Uni i take it you are smart enough understand other modes of transport. Some of us old gits dont fly, we have interrail tickets

Stop bashing older people and making assumptions all. Yes yabu

For all those who say it's easy to get abroad by car or train try doing that from the North of England or even worse Scotland.
A few hundred miles in the car before you get to the Channel tunnel or ferry port then another few hundred miles to your destination if its a seaside holiday you want, at least a couple of days each way plus the driver is tired out when you get there
The Eurostar doesn't connect with anywhere North of London so multiple train journeys, instead the government are prioritising HS2 to get 20 minutes or so off a trip from the North to London but still doesn't give a direct train link to Europe.
No wonder people fly when you can get to the Mediterranean in a few hours.