To be pissed off at people who constantly say we need to fly less?

[lockdowncockdown]

I'm probably going to get flamed for this but here goes. Am I being unreasonable to be annoyed by the people who constantly say 'well, we need to fly less anyway'. Well, yes that's ok for you to say at 40/50 years old after you've spent the last 20 years flying all over the world and brandishing yourself as ' well travelled' and cultured. What about those of us in our early twenties like me who has been abroad four times in my whole life, not even to anywhere particularly exciting and I'm just about to finish university and was hoping to finally be able to travel a bit? It's ok to spout nonsense about flying less when you've been lucky and already had your experiences but I find it very hypocritical to want to deny others the same experiences that you were lucky enough to have.

OP, the majority of people saying about flying less to help reduce climate change are actually younger people as they are more likely to be impacted by the effects of climate change.

People with children can't travel by train?! Funny, I took my daughter via train to visit my dad in the south of France last summer. Nobody told me it wasn't allowed...

@notimagain 😢😘

I do think we need to fly less. But really that isn't aimed at you if you've only been abroad a handful of times in 20 years. It's mainly targeted at those who fly for business - which can be up to 10-15 times a year or more in some roles. Many of those meetings can be conducted remotely (current situation proving this!) and so the ask is to not fly where it's not necessary. If business cut flights and travel significantly it would make a huge impact.

I'm 50 and never flown in my life.

We need to fly less.

And to those saying travel by train for most with kids this isn’t practical. How do you get from UK to go and the gorillas in Rwanda and back in a two week Easter holiday?

Those gorillas only stand a chance of surviving if most people don't go to see them. Children can be amused, entertained and have their minds expanded at much closer quarters.

Of course - but France is a stones throw away. We actually euro star when visiting Paris.

I’m sure you can concede that’s not possible for many many destinations though.

I’m afraid you couldn’t be more wrong there - and COVID has shown that.

I know rosiejaune. My parents took me from Sweden to Greece on the train- most exciting thing I've ever experienced. My db took his 2yo on the train from Sweden to Rome. Dh and I went from London to Spain via Paris.

You are being very super unreasonable. The only biggest positive thing out of all this coronavirus disaster is the disruption to the air travel industry it has caused.
If you want to see more of the future as you say, you need to support a reduction in carbon emissions and aviation is one of the worst culprits in this equation.
Hopefully electric planes will become a reality very soon but this cheer amount of selfishness like flying to Spain for hen do weekend, or go skiing in alps for three days twice in one season, and then a birthday party in Prague for couple of nights with my ten mates because it’s all so cheap, then in the summer fly off to cancun, has all got to be significantly decreased. This lifestyle is unsustainable on an environmental level. The airline industry has been racing to the bottom providing Substandard service that has been worsening off in the last 2 decades to encourage more people fly and pollute our skies while they make more money. Enough is enough.

The vast majority of us in our 40s and 50s haven't flown lots, Iam in my 40s, I have lived in Luton walking distance from the airport all my life but I have flown three return times in my life, once to Glasgow, once to Germany and once to Iceland.

We do all need to fly less, this doesn't mean not flying at all, travel is valuable but it doesn't mean you have to go abroad every single year, an overseas trip every few years will still let you be well travelled by the time you retire.

Some people are flying on holiday several times a year, others are flying for work doing things that could be easily done via video, it's no unreasonable to want this scaled back.

Every generation has more opportunities of some things and less of others, than the generations before them.

That's life.

We do all need to fly less, this doesn't mean not flying at all, travel is valuable but it doesn't mean you have to go abroad every single year, an overseas trip every few years will still let you be well travelled by the time you retire.

So how would you like to see individuals' flying rations policed? Genuine question.

Because flights have been so cheap and readily available, the genie is out of the bottle, and no amount of rhetoric is going to stop people wanting to fly.

So we need to re-direct our focus onto better, more sustainable fuel sources (which is the case for anything using power).

We have a lot of tech that can help us all move forwards into a more sustainable lifestyle, and we should encourage companies to see a commercial benefit to investing in further research towards sustainable travel.

I'm in my early 50s, I never went to university because I messed up my A levels. But even back in the 80s, it was expensive to go to university. OK, no tuition fees, but the grants for maintenance and cost of books, etc, were small and means tested. I know a couple of people from that time who ended up going straight into work because they/their families couldn't afford the costs of university. It wasn't something given on a plate.

And there are so many other things that we in the 80s didn't have compared to today.

OP,, it's swings and roundabouts. Yes, flying may be cut back, but you've got opportunities/lifestyles and so much more that we Gen X kids never had.

emz771 DS is three, we went from Toronto to Montreal on the train last year (5hrs), and on a sleeper train to Nova Scotia (2 days) and he loved it, was so excited by the sleeper beds and viewing car. Went skiing to Chamonix with him a few months ago via Skitrain, and again he loved it. We visit my DM by train every month. We were planning a trip to Scotland on the sleeper next summer. He doesn’t mind air travel, but he doesn’t actively enjoy it like he does on a plane.

Most small boys love trains. Why on earth wouldn’t you be able to take them for a trip on one? It’s far easier than a long car trip because they can go to the toilet, stretch their legs, go and get snacks etc. DS absolutely hates being strapped into a car seat (and also, separately, has developed really bad car sickness recently), but I don’t pretend that car travel is impossible with children.

If you have children, you can't moan at people for flying.

Yabu. Most of us will have a significantly reduced travel opportunities compared to our parents. On the other hand, every other previous generation didn't get to fly around the world either* The jetsetting babyboomers are really just a blip in the whole of human history.

*and of course the vast majority of humans throughout the world can't afford to fly anyway.

And to those saying travel by train for most with kids this isn’t practical. How do you get from UK to go and the gorillas in Rwanda and back in a two week Easter holiday?

Leave the gorillas in peace and stick some David Attenborough on. Take the kids to Cornwall or Edinburgh instead. If you actually care about the gorillas you'd stop fucking up their environment. Jesus Christ.

I am very old.
I used to fly on business around Europe 3 or 4 times a week, EVERY week.
It was NOT fun, it was not natural.
Thankfully I retired 22 years ago and have enjoyed flying for pleasure a few time a year.

Just like all the things in the past, flying is in the past.
Let us all move in.

Paniconthesteet - you literally couldn’t be more wrong.

People suggesting train are being obtuse - it quite clearly isn’t possible for people with kids etc

Why ever not? Every time I've been on Eurostar, I've seen families with children.

I say it and believe it. I have flown about 6 times in 45 years. I am not perfect but I don't think air travel is a human right and FOMO is not a justification for inessential travel.

There are slower ways of getting around, and maybe there will be scientific breakthroughs one day that allow speedy travel with greener less impactful methods.

LakeLady - of course I’m not referring to France or Belgium etc - not only is that more than possible it’s usually easier than flying.

But I can’t take my kids on an African Safari, to go and do the theme parks in Florida, etc by train.

I’d introduce rationing of airmiles . Everyone gets an allocation every year which they can save up. If they don’t want them they can sell them. If flights just become more expensive, the rich will continue as before and normal people will have to return to a week at a rainy seaside town .

I like that idea @Purpletigers