To be pissed off at people who constantly say we need to fly less?

[lockdowncockdown]

I'm probably going to get flamed for this but here goes. Am I being unreasonable to be annoyed by the people who constantly say 'well, we need to fly less anyway'. Well, yes that's ok for you to say at 40/50 years old after you've spent the last 20 years flying all over the world and brandishing yourself as ' well travelled' and cultured. What about those of us in our early twenties like me who has been abroad four times in my whole life, not even to anywhere particularly exciting and I'm just about to finish university and was hoping to finally be able to travel a bit? It's ok to spout nonsense about flying less when you've been lucky and already had your experiences but I find it very hypocritical to want to deny others the same experiences that you were lucky enough to have.

The only poster you should really listen to is the environmental scientist.

Yes, a reduction in air travel is needed but the large majority is business travel and private jets so they are the bigger culprits.

This is like berating someone for using their car to get to work when they could walk- they are not the problem, it is large companies and factories causing the bulk of air pollution.

I feel like you, I want to travel more and the people who seem suddenly concerned by their own air miles are the ones who have already visited 15+ countries in their lifetime. I'm not done yet so I'll still fly abroad at least once a year...

When it comes to lifestyle decisions like this you just need to accept you can't do everything and find a balance that makes you happy. I'm vegetarian so I feel I'm contributing something and don't beat myself up about wanting to fly

"Go by train. You can travel far"

Trains are too expensive at the moment. We need the prices to come down to tempt people away from the planes.

Thing is though OP, what do you think is “flying less?” I am really well travelled and have worked abroad too, but a lot of this was done via car and train. When I was in my 20’s I’d get 1 decent holiday abroad a year and if really, really lucky maybe another short break. Cheapo flights at 50 quid a pop mean flying is now like hopping in a train. It’s too much.

Last year I went to 3 countries in one holiday and saw way more, because I drove.

I'm pretty sure there will be a fall in use as big companies stop all the jetting around to reduce expenditure.
The oil industry is in trouble, as is flying, if we all buy less stuff there will be little need for all these businesses to jet off to China, cr purchases are down. Holidays and cruises? not sure when they'll get back to pre covid.

Go by train. You can travel far

🙄 Not in the UK when you are on average wage. Come on.

I'm 50 and haven't flown since 1992.

I've never been out of Europe, unless you count a hop across the Mid-Atlantic rift that same year.

YABU, you don't need to fly to travel.

@Gwenhwyfar I was meant to be in Edinburgh next Friday, just me and my son. I live in London so didn’t want to drive as it’s a long way. A return train journey was £183, a return aeroplane journey was £76 with one bit of hold luggage.

I'm 30. I'd love to be well travelled but there have always been more important things for me to spend money on. I've had some beautiful holidays in Europe but realistically I'd be happy if I never stepped foot on a plane again. We live in a beautiful country, I can fill my boots exploring that.

I'm not against holidays and travel by plane... but the fewer blooming weekend city breaks people take, the better!

Yes, I agree OP. The one thing keeping me going at the moment is a wonderful, luxury holiday in the Caribbean as soon as air travel is safe. I will be going business/first class and enjoying every single moment!

OP—don’t listen to them. If you can afford to fly, do it. I travelled all over the place before kids and it’s simply amazing. Now I do have family scattered across the globe so now much of my flying is just family visits but it wasn’t always like that.

Well, you only have to look at the impact less flights during the CV pandemic has had on the environment to see that of course we do need to fly less

Carbon emissions have hardly gone down. Limiting flights have done fuck all to reduce emissions because they only contribute 3% of the total. Even if you stop all flights tomorrow, we are going to still have pretty much the same level of emissions as before.

....so fly away. It makes no difference.

Really? So you think that everyone in the their 50s has been flying all over the world for the last 30 years? Cobblers! The ones that should REALLY be cutting back are the ones that fly to Europe on a daily/weekly basis for work, or within the UK even. However that may well change as up until now it was cheaper to fly from London to Newcastle that it was to go by train - significantly. It needs to be stopped as a way of commuting.

And I miss hearing planes flying overhead during the night. It always made me feel safe and warm, knowing there were people flying to/from their holidays.

Does anyone need to fly?
Many want to, but hardly the same thing.

“I hope this virus spells the death of the airline business”. It won’t. It is already spelling unemployment for tens of thousands of airline employees (I’m one of them) as the airlines sit on their profits and the bosses shore up their bonuses. Future airline employees will be paid much less to make sure the airline fat cats still get their money until things pick up. Airlines will still fly, but tickets will just cost more. Companies will still fly their people across oceans, they’ll just do what they did after 9/11 and not pay for first class or business for them. And people with plenty of money will still have flash holidays, particularly if it makes them feel more exclusive. The only people that won’t fly as much because of this will be those worse off. Very few will make a change because of the environment, whatever they’re saying now.

There are some wonderful places in The UK - but I do fail to see how people could be content holidaying in The UK only.

@Honeyroar

“I hope this virus spells the death of the airline business”. It won’t. It is already spelling unemployment for tens of thousands of airline employees (I’m one of them)

Likewise..agree entirely with your post - I do suspect you and I will simply be regarded as collateral damage....

Good Luck.
.

If the older generation hadn't made the mess, and the younger generation could fly as much as they want now, then the younger generation would be making the mess! That's not a logical argument. I'm pissed off with you old people because I wanted the opportunity to fuck up the planet myself?

The environmental damage of flying is relatively new knowledge. No one knew about the damage until 30 years ago. And it probably wasn't general knowledge until 20 years ago. Only Front page news for the last ten.

You can still travel to far off places and have a much bigger adventure than getting off a plane at your destination. Travel by train. Buy a bus and go over land with friends. Do it how the hippies did in the sixties. Instead of sulking cos the convenience of plane hopping is now denied you. If you want adventure and experiences, don't go on holiday. Actually travel.

I love in the UK, my parents live in Israel - how am I supposed to get there? There is no train connection, and no sea tours either

No train connection, true, but I'm sure it would be possible to travel overland and by boat, although I concede that getting across Syria would be rather challenging atm.

I wonder if there's a ferry to Alexandria from anywhere on the northern side of the Med? That would be fun.

My partner lives abroad so I (used to) fly every two weeks and him the other two weeks as us and his kids are here. That is likely to continue - but I imagine we are in the minority....

Airlines are a bit of a protected industry due to the perception of a successful nation depending on international travel, vibrant commercial cities doing business with the world, and air travel represents that.

Then there is tourism, which for an island nation relies so heavily in air travel.

I dislike that this is the case, but it's true.

People suggesting train are being obtuse - it quite clearly isn’t possible for people with kids etc.

YABVU. What about others across the globe having the very basic opportunities of clean air, clean water, and a safe place to live? You flying is denying them those things. You are massively privileged already, just by being a westerner.

Until recently, humans moving across the globe accepted that it was one-way and they would never see their friends and families again. It has only been in the last few decades that you could hop across the world and back again in a few days.

That is not sustainable, so we need to stop doing it. Maybe one day, when Star Trek type technology is real, we will be able to do it sustainably. But right now we can't, and shouldn't.

If you were using your fair share of the earth's resources, foreign travel would be rare, and not done by flying.

I am 36 and have flown to/from three places (the last time was when I was 19, and I won't be flying again). Two of which could have been done by alternative means, being in mainland Europe.

Unless we get it under control (if we can) flying is something that affects us all. Somehow we have to find a new method of propulsion or invent some hyper clean jet engines. Flying like motoring is a major contributor to climate warming. Travel by train, ship etc within Europe is ok. But flying is going to get expensive soon and is going to need reviewing.