To be pissed off at people who constantly say we need to fly less?

[lockdowncockdown]

I'm probably going to get flamed for this but here goes. Am I being unreasonable to be annoyed by the people who constantly say 'well, we need to fly less anyway'. Well, yes that's ok for you to say at 40/50 years old after you've spent the last 20 years flying all over the world and brandishing yourself as ' well travelled' and cultured. What about those of us in our early twenties like me who has been abroad four times in my whole life, not even to anywhere particularly exciting and I'm just about to finish university and was hoping to finally be able to travel a bit? It's ok to spout nonsense about flying less when you've been lucky and already had your experiences but I find it very hypocritical to want to deny others the same experiences that you were lucky enough to have.

My god, people in their 40s are not baby boomers! That’s our parents. We’re Gen X or very early millennials.

Totally going against the flow...

I totally agree with you OP. I am in my 50s and I'm incredibly grateful to have been able to travel a lot. Flying is (was?) my environmental guilty pleasure. I know I'm wrong, although in my defence I don't have children

I was saying when this all kicked off that I felt so sorry for younger people who might not get the same opportunities we had.

But: having watched the first series of Race Across The World, that might give you hope. As much as it took nearly two months, going by land from London to Singapore looked absolutely incredible. In fact we're talking about going by land to and from Greece next year.

I really hope the skies will be open for you.

I got the impression that the “fly less” people are really pointing the finger at business travellers, who see nothing wrong in hopping on a plane for meetings instead of connecting remotely

I wonder if there is going to be a huge change in this given people have been having the meetings remotely.

If there is a huge cut in business travel then either planes will have to charge more and/or their will be fewer choices of flights.

Companies like BA will really struggle

@Tea4Tw0Day same. From my door to my mum's it's either 4 hours by plane, 16 by car or 34 by train (and the cost does make you weep). And the plane IS also the cheapest.

Boomers were born between 1946-1964
Gen X were born between 1965-1980
Millennials were born 1981-1996

So today's grandparents tend to be Boomers, parents are Gen X or Millennials.

Well, yes that's ok for you to say at 40/50 years old after you've spent the last 20 years flying all over the world and brandishing yourself as ' well travelled' and cultured. What about those of us in our early twenties like me who has been abroad four times in my whole life,

Well I’m over 50 and have flown four times in my life! I do holiday often in France but always drive. I don’t actually envision ever flying anywhere again TBH......

The thing is with 'business travellers'.
They are not the biggest part of people who are flying even if they are more 'polluting' (just look at the size of the business class vs cattle class).
The lockdown has shown us how damaging transports in general are (planes but also cars). Just look at much cleaner the air is and how many people did NOT die from pollution related illnesses during the lockdown.

But from the posts on this thread, it is clear that people will still be happy to use their cars, fly once a year 'because it's not me, it's the business travellers/anyone else'. And I would be annoyed at ayone making a comment along the lines of 'you shouldn't be doing xxx' whilst they still do so many things that have just been visibly (as in you can see it with your own eyes) proven to be an issue iyswim

I think you're seeing it as a RIGHT and not considering that maybe we have RESPONSIBILITIES that should be larger.

I'm in my early 30s and would love to have travelled more in my 20s - finances made that hard. As much as I'd love to see the world, I really don't think I have an unalienable right to do so - previous generations did have the opportunity, but at great cost to the planet and, in a pandemic situation, the health of the global population. We DO need to stop flying so much, recreational travel is a want not a need and while I understand it's disappointing, we actually need to step up and preserve the planet for our children and everything else that lives on it. It's not all about us all the time.

@StCharlotte, you see I sometimes feel guilty to use the plane. But I feel even more guilty to take the car on such a long journey.
If I change my ways (and I am as much as I can), I would use the train instead.

As it is atm, I might well NOT chose to take the train because I'd rather be in a plane for 2 hours than in a train for 18 hours in the current circumstances....

I get equally pissed off at people who tell others how many children they’re allowed to have. These same people have had 1 or 2 children themselves, and seem to think their little darlings don’t add to the over population. If they’re that bothered then why are they having children? Surely if they choose not to “replace” themselves then they will be creating some space on the planet?

*Simplistically that's like saying if there is a cake you should have 7/8 instead of 1/8 th.
*

As long at the 40~50 yo also take their RESPONSIBILITIES lady

Incl being responsible for the shit that climate change is and that the OP generation will have to live with.
(And I am in the 50s category btw)

I am 42 and have flown about 5 times in my whole life, so a whole load less than loads of early 20's have already, dam it I deserve to travel loads! Me me me me me me me me me me me me etc

I really hope babbi that out of this corona-fuck-up people will realise how little business travel is actually necessary. My DH has, at times, been a very frequent business traveller, as have many of our friends, and they all, bar none, say that most of it is unnecessary.

It's also a pretty shit way to live your life - in airports, on planes and in hotel rooms - far from your family and friends, often with a fucked up body clock, and it costs companies shit tons of money to do. However much a premium Zoom or Teams account costs, it's peanuts compared to amount spunked up the wall on business travel.

The whole business model of flying huge numbers of people around the world to attend meetings is madness and based on nothing more than 'money makes the world go round'. We could all live much more sustainably on this planet if the only business travel that takes place was strictly necessary and if celebs and rich fuckers were named and shamed for their disgraceful profligacy in private jet usage.

My first trip abroad was on the ferry to France - then train etc - used to be that people hitch hiked as well - that's difficult now though. Maybe we will go back to something like that - back packing but getting a bus/train to see the world.

I’m in the 40-50 age group and most people I knew growing up just had camping holidays in Wales, Cornwall or Scotland. How many of your friends have camped in the U.K. as their main holiday)

I think the media have a lot to answer for! The way older generations are portrayed as all MC high earning individuals on around 100k or so.Taking their opportunities for granted, buying second homes and flying at the drop of a hat.Maybe for some but there are many more who had a modest upbringing and worked hard, but still needing to rely on things like equity release or RIO .The Guardian reported that 1 in 3 pensioners (Oct 17) were relying solely on the state pension ! (doubt you get many trips to Dubai for that!)Every generation has pluses and minuses .As a child in the 50s My parents friends DD caught polio and was in an Iron lung! Even in the 60s Measles could be a serious illness and there was no central heating ! Be grateful for what you have .In a few years I am sure flying will still be avaliable and you will be able to travel albeit in a slightly more limited way!

Im not a climate change denier per se.
But, i do think the whole issue has been blown out of proportion recently. People jump on bandwagons too easily these days,- instead of drawing their own conclusions.
I have got at best 40 years left to live.
Id like to enjoy them.
If this planet lasted a couple of hundred years and then blew itself into oblivion, that would more than suffice.
An unquestionably selfish attitude, but life is too short to ponder such trivial piffle.
Enjoy yourselves, as tomorrow may never come anyhow!

My family live in Italy and I go there once or twice a year...we could drive but then that us equally as bad...! Also now we have a two year old in the mix I would rather fly 2.5 hours and get there quickly.

Perhaps people should be limited to a certain amount of flights a year...although i'm guessing they are gonna be super expensive and hard to come by when we can fly again

@Abreadsandwich, you're spot on about the ridiculous price of train travel.

To go and visit MIL, 38 miles away, would be £20 each on the train, plus £3.20 return for the bus to the station, and £1.50 for the tram to her house, so almost £50. Petrol costs us less than a tenner.

And it would mean leaving her place at about 2, as our buses stop running at 5pm.

To meet up with friends in London for a meal cost over £60 last time we did it, which made it a bloody expensive night out.

lockdowncockdown I wasn’t aiming it at you. I’m right behind you fly as much as you can / want but remember your generation has had it a lot easier than previous ones. I went to a school with the worse record in my town no special measures back then My parents never had a car it was a luxury. Yes bought a house when I was 19 12% interest rates on mortgage then saw Council rates turn to poll tax so went up 10000% overnight lived on beans on toast. Since then spend time living in busses, boats, sheds as couldn’t afford a house.
I Didn’t blame the generations before us they were the ones that gave us freedom and they had a worse time than us.

A lot of my travel and culture gathering was done via train... interail... and the experiences I had and the stories I can tell are far more exciting that when I flew somewhere!!

You can travel all over the world by boat and train. It's an amazing way to travel.

Have flown 3 times in my entire life (40) and a couple of trips by sea before I realised it was worse,

Is it though? A friend's parents used to travel as passengers on cargo ships. They went to Australia, India, South Africa and South America, all without getting on a plane. The ships were sailing anyway, so the additional environmental cost of them being on board can't have been all that great.

Times are changing, I would love for the cheaper houses my parents were able to buy outright after saving for 2 years! Not going to happen as things are now though and have to accept that. I am actually loving the fresh air due to less pollution! And I don't think travelling abroad is a right, it's a luxury we can't really afford and I wouldn't object to restrictions to how much one person can travel by plane in a year. We have the technology to communicate across the world and there is other means to travel to other countries. Why don't you look at using the trains OP?

Maybe spare a thought for those living in distant countries who can only see family if they fly. Those people are more in "need" of flight travel, than your "want".