To wonder why the Brits are so obsessed with WW2?

[MrsSchadenfreude]

My Mum is 87. She was 12 when the war ended and went through it in London. She remembers being terrified and hungry and getting grief because her grandmother was German. Other elderly relatives don’t have lovely memories either, apart from relief when it was all over. So why do we glorify it all, at every opportunity? Why do we always look back instead of forward?

Can you explain in what way, I assume you mean the UK, is repeating the history of WW2?

Growth of anti-Semitism? Rising racism and distrust of foreigners? Shift towards right wing politics? Abandonment of the European ideal that came from the experiences of WW2?

We are not replaying the exact events of the 1930s/40s but there are parallels.

At present we have a eugenicist advising our PM. So yes, comprehensively examined. Lessons learnt? Probably not.

Yes I agree BJ is being appallingly self-serving in the current heavy handed parallels being drawn between WW2 and COVID. The DM is often atrocious. Some boozers are just using the excuse to booze.

So, what do you suggest? Does everyone who isn’t BoJo, a tabloid journalist or alcoholic just surrender our cultural history and traditions to the cynical and the uneducated?

Why are there always people using “We”, meaning the U.K., when what they really mean is “the reactionary right”, or “the tabloid press” or “some dipsomaniacs down the road”?

I am interested in WW2 - the human side especially. When I go to Europe, I have been to the places where the battles took place, as well as the places where the horrors took place, such as Auschwitz and In Prague where a lot of the Jewish population were deported.

I was in Arnhem last year. It's unfathomable to imagine what such places went through. Allied troops landed to try and seize the bridges. It failed. Arnhem was flattened. Countless civillians died and many more died in the winter that followed. Yet they are grateful for the attempt that was made.

I wish that those stories were told. The lessons of war. The courage of war and the courage of the civillians as well as the effect of war. Yet it's not. At least, I don't think so. It's all Dunkirk spirit, Tally Ho and Blitz spirit.

And anyone who has been to Auschwitz, who has read the stories, seen the gas chambers and read what horrors went on will know that we need to learn the lessons of what happened.

Can you explain in what way, I assume you mean the UK, is repeating the history of WW2?

The hate, the division, the scapegoating. The feeling we are "better", "special". The nationalism. The eagerness to report. The racism, the othering. The wish for martial law and want of violence against those seen to be "breaking the rules".
The hate,the division,the scapegoating.

Is it as bad as WW2? No. Hopefully it will never ever get to that point again. But it does exist and gaining traction on a small level. Probably not so small to the ones directly affected by it. All the while gleefully "remembering". All the while patting ourselves on the back that we were the good guys and still are.

@ArriettyJones yes I think we are mostly in agreement except in our interpretation of the OPs views.

I have to say I think this thread has been an interesting debate. I think it is important to debate and discuss commemoration, celebration, honouring, memorialisation. People have such individual views (just look at variations in gravestones and funerals) but it also plays such an important part in collective memory which is an important part of individual and community identity. If we don't question how and why we remember things, then we potentially accept an imposed 'correct' way to commemorate and that it is open to hijacking by particular causes or for political purposes.

It was not until Pearl Harbour in December 1941 that the Americans joined the war against Germany (and Japan from then). The Russians had only declared war against Germany in June 1941. A whole year before, Britain had been on the verge of invasion by the Nazis (who planned to invade once the Luftwaffe had defeated the RAF) and, against great odds, Britain certainly stood alone as a nation against the Nazis when the Battle of Britain took place (though 20% of the pilots were of various nationalities who were in Britain at the time and volunteered - the Poles a major component of these). If the Battle of Britain had been lost, Britain would have been invaded.

VE day, when it finally came, was a celebration of the huge sense of relief and thankfulness that everyone felt that they were now safe and the fighting was (apart from the war against the Japanese still going on) over. It wasn't and isn't celebrating war, it was celebrating peace.

You'd be forgiven give the images in the media and what's on the streets yesterday for thinking that was the norm

Yes a newly arrived alien would have been distinctly mislead about how VE Day is usually observed, in previous, non-pandemic times.

Misled^

@saladmakesmesad totally agree. Even if they did volunteer to go it was because of the pressure of patriotism and the old stiff upper lip you'll be ok type of thing. I always feel so so sad for those that were faced with such horror but the powers that be sat in their comfortable far away places. We will never learn sadly x

Yes, Mrsjoyful. And now it's just an excuse for a piss up and some scones and a time to forget to be socially distant.

I agree with everything Jasper and Consuela have said. I believe we, as a country, have learnt pretty much nothing from the past.

Growth of anti-Semitism? Rising racism and distrust of foreigners? Shift towards right wing politics?

Yes. We certainly saw evidence of anti semitism during the last election. It seems to have colonised some parts of the Labour party. As for the 'far right ?" There is no 'far right' in the UK in any serious form. If you refer to the current government? They are continuing the Blairite policies which have dominated UK politics for over twenty years. There is the emergence of the 'far right ' in Europe though. The AfD, the Sweden Democrats, the Front National. Germany, Sweden, Austria, France. There is a resurgence of nationalism in Europe. Not in the UK.

here is a resurgence of nationalism in Europe. Not in the UK

I would say that it is there and it would not take much to make it mainstream.

You're kidding yourself. Far right is everywhere. General views are becoming more right wing every year.

Some of the anti Semitic's amongst us were not necessarily born here either

Not in the UK.

Why do you think that?

Just because it is usually marked differently doesn't mean I have to be comfortable with how it was marked this year.

Tied in with collective memory, it is also interesting to remind ourselves that how past events are marked and depicted in literature, art, culture is not fixed. It changes and often tells us more about society at that moment in time than the historical event itself. You can see this for example in different depictions of Robin Hood over the years or in memorialisation of events like the battle of Bannockburn. So it is always worth asking what our memorialisation and depiction of historical events says about us a society.

^The hate, the division, the scapegoating. The feeling we are "better", "special". The nationalism. The eagerness to report. The racism, the othering. The wish for martial law and want of violence against those seen to be "breaking the rules".
The hate,the division,the scapegoating^

Perhaps you need to get some perspective. Have you ever travelled or lived abroad beyond Europe? There is a curious Brit obsession that the rest of the world is free of nationalism or feelings of superiority. These things are woven into the DNA of most countries. In the world beyond Europe, sectarian and ethnic conflicts result in the most horrific killings. Looking at the UK from a distance, it seems curious that so many people are so incensed by the VE day celebrations. Bunting? Lindy hop? It's almost as if some people believe the only acceptable posture for the West in general and the UK specifically is a hairshirt without end.

You're kidding yourself. Far right is everywhere

Can you identify what you consider to be 'far right' in the UK as anything other than marginal? In Germany, the AfD are a valid political party.

Sending people back to countries they haven't lived in because they aren't white. That's pretty far right for a start and the fact that the rest of the country aren't up in arms at the injustice of this.

Perhaps you need to get some perspective. Have you ever travelled or lived abroad beyond Europe? There is a curious Brit obsession that the rest of the world is free of nationalism or feelings of superiority

You will see that I did not say this was unique to Britain. I am not sure why you need to have made that point.

And yes, I have lived and travelled in many countries. We are by no means superior to others. In fact, in many ways, we are behind some countries in how we have structured our society. And we do some things very well.

We live in a reasonably good society. It's reasonably tolerant - and it could be far worse.

I want to ensure that it does not move towards a less tolerant society.

There is no 'far right' in the UK in any serious form. If you refer to the current government? They are continuing the Blairite policies which have dominated UK politics for over twenty years. There is the emergence of the 'far right ' in Europe though. The AfD, the Sweden Democrats, the Front National. Germany, Sweden, Austria, France. There is a resurgence of nationalism in Europe. Not in the UK.

Current government is not far right, you are correct.
However- we arguably have several far right groups and political parties and we have had instances of far right terrorism in this country. You are deluded if you don't think the far right are here in the UK, or that nationalism isn't on the rise.

I don't see it as glorification. It should be and needs to be a constant reminder of how awful war is.
Every event marked always comes with rembrance.
Admittedly I'm from a military lifestyle as a child and adult so know about war loss first hand at every stage if my life (I'm 47).
Events like yesterday were not glorifying but remembering. It was an awful.time. VE day 75 years ago was the first time ever for some children and for many years for others where they could feel relief.
My relatives who lost homes, fiancee and parents as well as friends in the war tell me VE day was the most eating thing to happen. They joy and relief felt on that day has never been matched in the following 75 year.
Just because they were no longer terrified of bombs or an invasion and celebrating that day did not mean they felt tgebloss and sadness as well.
I always think whwn people.thing remembrance etc is glorifying war they've missed the point.
Thankfully we have the freedom to choose not to get involved if you choose not to so why get her up about what others do if it's not your bag?

Why do you think that?
@PrincessConsueIaBananaHammock

I have given you four examples of European countries where far right parties have garnered serious political support. Which far right party has support in the UK? On the same scale as the AfD in Germany? The Front National in France? The Sweden Democrats? The Freedom Party in Austria?

Can you identify what you consider to be 'far right' in the UK as anything other than marginal? In Germany, the AfD are a valid political party

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right_politics_in_the_United_Kingdom

I wish that those stories were told. The lessons of war. The courage of war and the courage of the civillians as well as the effect of war. Yet it's not. At least, I don't think so. It's all Dunkirk spirit, Tally Ho and Blitz spirit. Well in schools we teach children mainly about the Home Front in KS2. Nothing about 'Dunkirk spirit, Tally Ho and Blitz Spirit'. Are you saying that teachers are not very good at their jobs?
Yesterday there were lots of lovely interviews with people who were in the war. Did you miss them?

And anyone who has been to Auschwitz, who has read the stories, seen the gas chambers and read what horrors went on will know that we need to learn the lessons of what happened. Is anyone disputing this?