To wonder why the Brits are so obsessed with WW2?

[MrsSchadenfreude]

My Mum is 87. She was 12 when the war ended and went through it in London. She remembers being terrified and hungry and getting grief because her grandmother was German. Other elderly relatives don’t have lovely memories either, apart from relief when it was all over. So why do we glorify it all, at every opportunity? Why do we always look back instead of forward?

Oh FFS

My great grandparents came to the UK from Germany as refugees. And yet you clearly feel some resentment against the UK. MN is fertile ground for this anti British feeling. As someone said above the Guardian point of view. The thing is OP we're all different, unique. We all have a unique set of influences and circumstances. For instance, my family on both sides are farmers so didn't go to war. My DF was in the Home Guard and that was it. We're Scottish and street parties aren't really a thing up. Yet I don't resent people having street parties or celebrating the anniversary of VE day.

I’ve never in my life seen anyone glorifying the war. I have seen:
People remembering the sacrifice of millions to defeat absolute evil
People celebrating THE END of an awful time
People celebrating the adaptability and resourcefulness of millions
People celebrating resilience
People trying to ensure we learn from the lessons of the past.

Such commemorations can be seen throughout the world

None of this is glorifying war.

But getting pissed and having a street party is commemorating nothing.

Oh FFS, really. I'm sorry but Europe owes us a debt of gratitude for the role we played in not allowing a tyrannical leader to continue to invade less powerful countries. We could have looked the other way but we didn't, and it cost us an immense amount in lives lost, lives ruined and economically. It's a debt we can never repay that generation.

Oh and speaking of debt, we only paid off our debts from the WW2 in 2006. So the burden has been borne by all but the youngest adults of working age.

So yes we should be really bloody proud and not ashamed to be.

That's why I think the treatment of the UK in the Brexit negotiations by the EU has been so appalling. Europe would have been a very different place had we not stepped in and made those sacrifices.

pennylane if the UK hadn't invaded half of he world, the world would look very different too.

That is why I hate this bullshit of : look how great we are, we saved the world in ww2.

What about all the times we invaded and alaughtered innocent people?

I have travelled and seen the damage that the Uk has done to many parts of the world

Make up your mind @Annamaria14

Either everything is up for commemoration, academic study, official apologies, prayers for the dead, school syllabi, national events, (national pride even), dispassionate evaluation (or anything reaction) or nothing is.

You can’t have it both ways.

But getting pissed and having a street party is commemorating nothing Some people get pissed at the drop of a hat. You can't police people's thoughts and feelings.

Noconcept rather apt name, I'd say.

We could have looked the other way but we didn't, and it cost us an immense amount in lives lost, lives ruined and economically. It's a debt we can never repay that generation

We really couldn't have looked the other way.

Unless a Europe controlled by Nazi Germany with us an island off it was something we would have wanted?

If anything, we owe the US and Russia immensely.

No you can't. Same as you can't stop me from thinking that there is a heap of hypocrisy going on.

But getting pissed and having a street party is commemorating nothing.

Hooliganism isn’t appreciating soccer.

You don’t judge the worth of something by the least-educated, most alcohol-orientated, least-considered reaction to it.

That argument doesn't work. No-one suggests we would be celebrating the end of the war if we'd been on the losing side.

This^

The day is called Victory in Europe day. Not peace in Europe day or the end of war in Europe day. It’s victory you are celebrating when you celebrate VE Day.

Same as you can't stop me from thinking that there is a heap of hypocrisy going on. And what of it? I can't get het up about people baking scones and hanging up bunting. Anything to break up the monotony. If it made a few people aware of the great sacrifices made during the war then it was worth it.

We have had VE day.

Certain elements of our media will still go on promoting hate, divisiveness and turning a blind eye to what's going on in the world.

So I wonder what we have really learnt from WW2.

Probably nothing.

People forget that Hitler was elected because anti-Semitism was widespread all over Europe in the 1930s. Here in the UK, Mosley had a fair amount of support, so we weren't immune to it.

I think rather than forget, they never learned or were never taught. Which again points out the hollowness of “lest we forget”. People saying we “commemorate” (they’re actually celebrating) so we remember what happens and prevent it happening again. But actually they’re not remembering a shit load of it. Just the bits that are fun to “commemorate” by having Victoria sponge and a sing a long.

chomalungma
I have read that de Gaulle was told of the Normandy landings as they were happening. I don’t doubt he knew there were plans. But that it was too dangerous to divulge full plans and execution date in case they got into the hands of the occupying forces. Are you saying this is not the case?

ust the bits that are fun to “commemorate” by having Victoria sponge and a sing a long

Oh yes.

And no doubt there are some people in the UK who would have no problem if certain groups were villified like the Jewish people were during the years before WW2 and othered. I bet they would be informing on them to the authorities as well.

We never had that in this country. Other countries in Europe did. They had the collaborators, the people just trying to survive and the people who resisted.

I bet we would have had the same if we had been invaded. (disclaimer - yes, I know about the Channel Islands)

Well we won didn't We! It's romanticized now as a golden time, Churchill, bulldog spirit etc but for those generations that lived through it or were born just after it was a dark time. It should be remembered but not lauded as some golden age.

Here in the UK, Mosley had a fair amount of support, so we weren't immune to it. But he didn't have enough support. There is still a lot of anti-Semitism in this country and we heard a lot about it during the recent election. There will always be people with nasty views.

YANBU OP.... and I hung up bunting and had a BBQ yesterday along with half our small street.

I remember the sacrifice of various family members. Some gave their lives.

I have no issue with celebrating the the end of a war in which so many died.

I do have an issue with the "British bulldog the world owes us and we did it alone" bollocks.

The amount of young Polish (along with other nationalities) airmen residing in war cemeteries rather gives away that we collaborated with others.

So yes celebrate but do it for the right reasons. Remember what those who sacrificed their lives gave us. Remember that several countries worked together to achieve victory and just be grateful they did.

I raised a glass to them all yesterday.

I do have an issue with the "British bulldog the world owes us and we did it alone" bollocks. But do you actually hear anyone saying stuff like this?

People forget that Hitler was elected because anti-Semitism was widespread all over Europe in the 1930s. Here in the UK, Mosley had a fair amount of support, so we weren't immune to it.

Who is “we”? Who forgets any of that? Why does it make the millions of deaths any less worthy of remembrance?

That’s the root of this. Stop lumping everyone in together, across every possible variation.

Appeasement, British fascism, International eugenic thought, have all been comprehensively examined many times.

Moseley was a fringe figure without widespread support.

The nasty views will always be there. What is more worrying is that people haven't remembered what went on during the war and are compliant with things happening today which are abhorrent and that come from racism - like Windrush and people being deported for no other reason than not being white British.

Noconcept
No country should be beholden to another for 75 years. How many centuries should they be grateful to us exactly? And if we should be grateful, should not other nations also hold us to account? Would you be ok for African nations to wage war on us for slavery, Ireland to start killing us for the potato famine or aborigines to start killing us for stealing their children last century? Should Iraq be grateful too?

Mummyoflittledragon

De Gaulle refused us entry to what is now the EU.My understanding is he was pissed off with us for coming to French shores on DDay to liberate them and not giving him a heads up.

I don't think that was it. As later events have made his quotes on the subject seem very apposite, I think he'd just developed some valuable insights into British culture during his time here.

If it was to do with D-Day, I'd inquire into his thoughts on Caen, where about 3000 civilians were killed by Allied bombs in the liberation efforts.