To think the pandemic has raised a real issue around school/childcare

[SomewhereNow]

It's become apparent over the past weeks, and more so now that going back to some kind of normal may be on the cards, that most parents (or in many cases mums) cannot work without their children being in school. I completely agree with the 'school isn't childcare' argument, however in reality it appears it has to be for many people.

Having juggled kids/work myself (albeit a few years ago) I recognise the challenges but now I can also see it from the point of view of employers or employees without kids/with older kids - even without a crisis like the current one there are the inevitable sick days, school holidays etc which require a hefty dose of flexibility that isn't always practical for a business.

With most households needing 2 salaries for even a relatively modest standard of living these days, and with both parents often choosing to work for the sake of their own careers (and sanity!) having kids in school plus some other form of childcare seems to be the only option but it doesn't seem to actually suit anyone very well - parents (again often mums) feel like they're failing at both being a parent and an employee, businesses have to work round the needs of the staff and kids have to fit in with it all.

It feels as though something needs to change but I've no idea what.

A living wage would be a start

Something needs to change? Societal expectation that it's female members of society that bear almost the entirety of caring responsibility. That applies as much to ill relatives as it does to children.

But when an assumption like this is so deeply ingrained within a society or culture, unfortunately it will take a lot more than a pandemic to dislodge it. 'Wifework' is a thing, and will continue to be a thing for as long as women are prepared to accept it. It's just highly frustrating that the onus falls back on us whichever way you cut it.

YANBU.

Hmm. I don't agree with you really. I feel like everything was working ok (not for everyone of course, but for most people) and will go back to being ok once the schools / nurseries / other forms of childcare reopen. The current situation is certainly challenging though!

@MarieIVanArkleStinks

I couldn’t disagree with you more. I think this shows that the traditional model of mum at home, dad at work, or mum/mum, dad/dad..really does work! Life is such a big rush and there are so many mental health issues, one parent at home taking on the brunt of that while another takes on the work outside of the home works. That being said the key is choice!! Which luckily ... we do have.

@SomewhereNow - I completely agree with you and the only way I have been able to go back to work is to find one of the rare term time only jobs. Of course, it is in a school and some of the term dates differ to the two schools our children attend.

While we managed on DH's wage, it was very much managing and not having a lot of spare cash at the end of every months, if at all. I was also missing out on NI contributions towards my pension and now I am earning, I have 8 years worth to make up - we couldn't spare it before.

But we rely on breakfast club to drop the children off and a friend to grab mine at the school gates if they aren't at an after school club (no guarantee they would get one every night and in anycase, it's a lot to tack an extra hour on at the beginning and end of each day.

At our old school we didn't even have before or after school clubs so most families had one stay at home parent and suffered lower income and lower standard of living as a result.

Universal living wage is the only way and I really think we need to bang the drum on this harder. I would happily pay more tax to help pay for it.

I wonder how many people have kids or more than one without really thinking through affordability. I'm not suggesting having children should be something only rich people do but I wonder if people will think twice in future

I’m on the breadline. If I could go out and apply for work, my life could improve massively. So glad school sent me a link for a petition calling for schools to stay closed.

Single Mum with disability so life and work are tricky at the best of times.

From the fact that you have repeated "mostly mums" on more than one occasion I suspect the first change that may be required for you personally before societal change is that your OH needs to pull their weight.

Of course one of the functions of school is childcare - it has always been childcare. It was designed to keep children off the streets while parents went to work in factories.

It has also highlighted childcare provided by grandparents.

@Changedname78 completely agree.

I think people need to be more flexible as well though. When we had our second, I changed jobs and my new hours involved working Saturday and Sunday. Literally every other parent that had childcare issues said 'i couldn't possibly work weekends, that's out the question'

PP wrote: MarieIVanArkleStinks I couldn’t disagree with you more.

Well that's allowed, and is fine. I'm sure that for some people the model of dad at work, mum at home does work IF that is what they want.

It isn't for us. I'm of the type of profession I couldn't go back to if I were to take protracted time out. There are about 3-4 jobs a year advertised in my specialism and few of those are in my locality. My DC will become increasingly independent with age and I'll be left superfluous. In addition I love my job and want to work.

I'm fortunate enough to have a DH who sees raising the DC as being the equal responsibility of both parents and with equal input from us both. But the more I read on Mumsnet, the more I realise this might be a rarity, and it's bringing it home to me that I'm really very fortunate.

Last point: your comment as to choice. Yes, it is, but I don't think that choice is as straightforward as it might seem. It's driven by all manner of underlying factors, primarily economics and the way society is structured in terms of working conditions/rights for the sexes. But it's also based on many ingrained sex-based assumptions as well. The UK has come a long way toward redressing this. But the CV19 crisis is illuminating quite starkly just how many ways in which we've stood completely still.

Schools are education, not childcare, but it is semantics really, as people have to build their lives around their children being in school for that number of hours a week. People don't pay for nannies to be available just in case the school has to close.

Likewise, it doesn't make a lot of financial sense for most families to have one parent at home on standby.

This is especially true for single parents who don't have the luxury of choice - even if it somehow became easier for one parent to stay at home and one to work. One parent = has to do it all.

I'm not sure anything can/will change.

The problem isnt just schools are shut though. Its that all childcare is shut plus we cant see relatives.

Its obvious that if both parents want to work at the same time then yes childcare is going to be an issue.

Personally I think men taking on a caring roll more would help massively. It lowers the burden on employers of women as only 50% of DC sick days, plus if most adults of a certain age have childcare responsibilites then it becomes more the norm and workplaces will be more likely to adapt.

I know DPs work (about 95% men) are absolutely fine if you need to take 6 weeks off for a broken leg, but a day off because your child is sick? Not so happy

Things like both parents working a 4 day week, higher pay. Generally shorter hours. The majority of adults will be parents at some point in their careers but it always seems to shock employers

To be fair I think the model of one parent at home does work best from a having chidlfen perspective. However like fuck would I give up my career, and DP wouldnt either.

This is an exceptional situation, its not the norm. And so there are going to be lots of people whos lives arent built to tolerate it. But it doesnt happen every year and you cant build your life around something thats unlikely to happen most of the time

I think the answer is increased flexibility. For a lot of jobs (and no, not all by any stretch), the 9-5 thing isn't actually necessary. I moved from a very old fashioned office, where you were late at 9:02 (regardless of when you left) and most people were gone by 17:01 to a role with almost complete flexibility. My DH also has a lot of flexibility. We have no family support and wouldn't have both been able to continue to work fulltime if I had stayed in my old role.

One parent at home can work brilliantly (but it's still oh so rarely the man...), but that should only be by choice. Nowadays people tend to meet their partner through work or study, and thus start out with similar goals. Why should one give all that up if they don't want to?

I completely agree that men need to take on more of the caring and wifework. Everything is 50/50 in our house but that seems to be rare.

@Coronabored
Weekend worker too (pre pandemic), was tiring at times, but meant I could balance childcare and bringing in a wage

The ‘living wage’ argument is thrown around so often on here and whilst I don’t disagree at all with the principle I’m just not convinced that it would make a significant long term difference. Current wages are dictated yes by the government ‘minimum’ but also set out proportionately to the level of education/skill and demand for the roll and people’s expectations of lifestyle varies accordingly.

If person A is a cleaner earning minimum wage, let’s say £10k pa. The role requires no formal qualifications and Is easy enough to walk Into.
Person B is a teacher earning £30k pa, the role requires a higher level of education and is somewhat competitive to get.
Person B is a Neuroscientist earning £80k, the role requires several lengthy qualifications and is prestigious.

If person A is suddenly earning £15k pa because minimum wage comes in, it systematically devalues B and C’s wages. In an ideal world B and C would see the greater good and not mind but in reality of course they would mind. Before anyone jumps in with the ‘cleaners can hold degrees too’ of course they can but the role doesn’t require it so it’s a moot point.

We live in a capitalist society where anybody can be rich but the majority will be poor.
The minimum wage argument also doesn’t really apply to this situation ^ at all, as childcare providers would also have to raise their fees to pay their own staff more so the working mum wouldn’t be better off whilst requiring childcare. Unless of course the argument is that one parent could stay at home if the other earn’t more but that would surely be a step backwards for most women rather than forwards.

Looking after children is a full time job which deserves a decent full time wage. Unfortunately that means that couples who choose to have children cannot also pull in two full time salaries and expect to keep them. It’s just the way it is.

I empathise, I have an 8 week old DS so am facing this all myself.

Hopefully it might make people realise that you need to be in a good financial position before having children and not view them as an accessory to have 'because I love him and he would make a great dad'. Children are lifelong and expensive responsibilities. I cannot believe the number of people that I read about on here that seem to have children at the drop of a hat without any thought for the future.

Hopefully it might make people realise that you need to be in a good financial position before having children and not view them as an accessory to have 'because I love him and he would make a great dad'. Children are lifelong and expensive responsibilities. I cannot believe the number of people that I read about on here that seem to have children at the drop of a hat without any thought for the future.

Or... We should have a society that supports children and parents regardless of their financial circumstances - at the time of conception or further down the line. None of us can know the future.

It is precisely because schools are npnot childcare that the issue arises.

The hours of education are so important that often all other family decisions are made to support it - choice of childcare, parental working hours, even where you live. So when it's unexpectedly called off, everything else can and does fall in to disarray.

I read something from Sutton Trust which showed that about 57% of private schools and 27% of state schools were provideing noise schooling. And schools are also important for socialisation. So I expect the solution will lie with more flexible workplaces.

The pandemic has shown up how a set working day in a set place might not be the only way (yes it is for some, but for others it's just 'but we've always done it that way')

I hope, for the sake of the planet, that we do not rush to recreate life as it was before.

The impending global depression is going to hurt, no doubt about that. But it's also an opportunity to do things differently

I really don’t agree with the “school isn’t childcare” analysis!

Ok, it’s designed for learning, but of course if you expect them to go to school between certain hours it’s reasonable to plan to work or get a job. You’re not going to pay for them to go to a nursery whilst they’re at school! So if you’re not allowed to use the time at school to get a job, thus making it “childcare” let’s all be SAHP. Oh no, now I remember that’s not allowed either. Once your kids go to school you should be working you lazy so and so!!

I despair. No one can win!!

@Stantons in some ways I think that was happening, the uk birth rate is the lowest it’s ever been and I’ll be interested to see if it drops further after this year as young childfree people see how screwed some people were professionally and financially by the pandemic and decide not to risk parenthood.