To think the pandemic has raised a real issue around school/childcare

[SomewhereNow]

It's become apparent over the past weeks, and more so now that going back to some kind of normal may be on the cards, that most parents (or in many cases mums) cannot work without their children being in school. I completely agree with the 'school isn't childcare' argument, however in reality it appears it has to be for many people.

Having juggled kids/work myself (albeit a few years ago) I recognise the challenges but now I can also see it from the point of view of employers or employees without kids/with older kids - even without a crisis like the current one there are the inevitable sick days, school holidays etc which require a hefty dose of flexibility that isn't always practical for a business.

With most households needing 2 salaries for even a relatively modest standard of living these days, and with both parents often choosing to work for the sake of their own careers (and sanity!) having kids in school plus some other form of childcare seems to be the only option but it doesn't seem to actually suit anyone very well - parents (again often mums) feel like they're failing at both being a parent and an employee, businesses have to work round the needs of the staff and kids have to fit in with it all.

It feels as though something needs to change but I've no idea what.

"in Norway, where childcare is subsidised from 1 yo and the view is that if women are in high paid jobs with good childcare they can contribute more to tax and thus help fund better public services."

Great if society as a whole fundamentally believes that caring for children should be primarily a commercial or state provided enterprise rather than a parental role or responsibility. Personally in find it pretty astonishing that people will bang on about how parenting is this most important job in the world and then outsource it to someone who is paid minimum wage. People have children now thinking that they can outsource great chunks of parenting and that society should stump up for the privilege of doing their job. It's a truly strange mindset.

Or some of us don't think women should waste their skills and qualifications in a way that men are not expected to?

We have significant skills shortages in the UK!

My dc is only in school 4 hrs 40 minutes, so it's not just childcare but it's full on learning, playing, socialising, sports etc. That is what we are missing, along with the breakfast club, after school club, playdates, sleep overs, grandparents helping out, babysitters, childminders, camps, football training, swimming, etc etc etc etc.

If it was just the schools closed, it would just be like summer holidays (we get 9 weeks) but it's far from that.

That’s not my experience. Dh and I both work full time and have 3dc. We work slightly flexed hours so take turns who starts work early and then picks up after school. Usually we use a cm two days a week however she’s just closed her business permanently so we will instead pick up dc one day extra each and work from home. The pandemic has given us the chance to prove this works as I’m currently working from home 2 days a week and in the hospital 3 and dh home all the time working. That part is hard as we’re also home schooling.

I find that both dh and I having flexible employers means this works well and the dc still get enough of us. I believe the pandemic will give more employers trust in their employees to work more flexibly which will help modern life.

I guess the main thing that makes this work is dh having a progressive attitude (I call it normal but have learned from mn it’s not). We are an equal partnership. I don’t carry the family load and all that martyr nonsense. I’m a good mum and dh is a great dad with equal responsibilities for our family.

The first step has to be coules thinking about childcare plans before deciding to have a baby. And this extends to finances. I don’t understand why it is only when there is a baby/toddler than women realize their DP considers all things related are the woman’s job , including paying for and arranging childcare if they want to get back to work.

One of my pet MN hates is how often I see "school isn't childcare" trotted out.

Of course it bloody is.

ThePants999

And yet its not.

Phineyj - women are no more obliged to waste their qualifications than men are. Children have two parents in the main so between them they need to do the full time job of caring for children, it's not rocket science.

Thepants999 - no it isn't, anymore than hospitals are hotels. Yes you can be accommodated overnight in a hospital but that doesn't mean that that is it's purpose.

Thepants999.

Actually it’s not

I think you're over thinking this. Never in history have children and parents just been at home. Parents have always worked and even if a mother wasn't in paid employment it would be a full time job to run the house, cook, clean and look after whichever kid needed it most from whichever family, they weren't spending a great deal of time with the kids like we do today.

Children have always gone to school or were taken to work or would go to work. They wouldn't have been sat waiting for a parent to bring their education on a plate.

So it's silly to say that it's a sudden realisation that people use school as childcare, it's perfectly normal for kids to be at school and for parents to be occupied with something other than their child. So it makes sense that society is structured in that way.

All people were born and most people have families, either kids or parents to look after. So employers aren't doing anyone a favour by employing people in these groups, restricting businesses to only people without caring responsibilities is impossible.

I was so lucky when my DC were small that I negotiated a term time customer/facing role, mainly working at home and parents were willing to help out. DH was useless and I don't know why I didn't insist on him helping more.
I feel for people now with inflexible jobs and schools closed.
I am a teacher and long to go back -would be back now if it were allowed.

The current situation has made us really reassess what we should do but we still don’t have the answers. We’ve both worked hard for our careers but something at the moment has to give as everyone is bloody miserable and the (very small) children are suffering because of it. In the short-term we’d all probably be happier if I gave up work but I’m hesitant because I’ll never get back to where I am now, I’ve secured part-time hours which I probably wouldn’t get again and while my husband is a high earner, his job isn’t very secure. So basically, we’re all miserable but our heads are staying we should both carry on working for the longer-term benefits but it is so hard now when everything is going to shit at home.

Historically the only alternative to “school as childcare” is children tag along to the adults’ work.
Children learn to be adults either in groups of other children being trained by specialists (teachers) or they are trained “on the job” by their parents.
While it’s fine to have kids doing chores with their adults on a croft, it clearly became inhumane in the factories of the industrial revolution and is now impractical in most modern workplaces.
Therefore to some extent, school IS childcare.

lemonsandlimes

I keep saying this too, I'm sounding like a broken record.
I'm sure all these intelligent career focussed women can spot the signs of a waste of space before they marry them.
They also allow the man to carry on at their expense because they earn more.
I think they need to decide what is more important less money and keeping their career, or giving it up for the higher earning husband.
It's obvious that childcare can't be relied upon.
What will we do if this is just the start and as the polar caps melt disease is unleashed into the world. Scientists are discussing this, now and have been doing for some time.
We didn't know there was going to be a pandemic, but we need to be prepared for times like this.

It's obvious that childcare can't be relied upon

Except it usually absolutely can be because there isn't a worldwide pandemic every day.

Realistically they don't happen so often.

Should we go back to 1950s values because of this?

Shall we make domestic violence acceptable again too while we're at it?

The issue is we can't just go back to one wage families. Not us normal folk. Wages are not high enough and property is too expensive.