To think the pandemic has raised a real issue around school/childcare

[SomewhereNow]

It's become apparent over the past weeks, and more so now that going back to some kind of normal may be on the cards, that most parents (or in many cases mums) cannot work without their children being in school. I completely agree with the 'school isn't childcare' argument, however in reality it appears it has to be for many people.

Having juggled kids/work myself (albeit a few years ago) I recognise the challenges but now I can also see it from the point of view of employers or employees without kids/with older kids - even without a crisis like the current one there are the inevitable sick days, school holidays etc which require a hefty dose of flexibility that isn't always practical for a business.

With most households needing 2 salaries for even a relatively modest standard of living these days, and with both parents often choosing to work for the sake of their own careers (and sanity!) having kids in school plus some other form of childcare seems to be the only option but it doesn't seem to actually suit anyone very well - parents (again often mums) feel like they're failing at both being a parent and an employee, businesses have to work round the needs of the staff and kids have to fit in with it all.

It feels as though something needs to change but I've no idea what.

Oh and I’m already in flexible working plan to accommodate drop of times etc so I can’t work anymore flexibly

Equally my dp "doing his bit" wouldn't help us at all because he earns a damn sight more than me. Him going PT so I could work PT and not need to use any childcare would just make us worse off than if he worked and I didn't!

I disagree that most households need 2 salaries for a modest standard of living. I think if anything lockdown has shown that what people regard as essential varies massively from person to person and that many people would be happier if they could be satisfied with less.

The80's

This might not be very popular but I've heard many a woman admit that the signs were there before they got married/ moved in together.
I'm not saying it's always the case, but more often than not.
That was my comment above, you can take steps to minimise marring a twat.

🚨 Smugness Alert Warning!🚨

but thank god I don’t have kids. Lockdown ,homeschooling and working from home just sounds like utter hell on earth for me. I really do feel for those stuck in hideous situations with feral kids, partners who have no interest in helping out etc etc. It really does make me appreciate my simple life.

Anyone reading this thread contemplating kids, take my advice, don’t do it. You’ll thank me later. 😅

I disagree that most households need 2 salaries for a modest standard of living

Hahhahahahaha. It must be nice to be so privileged.

I think we've lost sight of how to effectively manage a home. It needs one person in the home (any gender, or could be a grandparent, nanny or au pair) who is always around for child pick-ups, sick days, deliveries and who can run the home, get food on the table etc.

But this model only worked when a) families could afford to live on one income b) the person at home wasn't treated as a lazy social leper for not bringing income into a home.

We need to hugely re-value and recognise the social strength of being a SAHP.

Failing this, the working model needs to change with far more job shares and part time workers. This should be a good solution. If you have job share, you get different skill sets. They might cover for each other's holidays, sick days etc.

Student58

I agree it doesn't take 2 salaries, but nothing wrong with people choosing 2 salaries, or both having careers.
You can live on very little if that is your choice.
Much of society strives for success and measures this with chosen career, salary, material possessions. So the need for more and more becomes the norm to become successful.
Others see success in raising a family, helping friends and family and having relatively little.
I think society needs both, the problem being when one group thinking their way is the only or best way to be. Or one group becomes the more acceptable.

I think this shows that the traditional model of mum at home, dad at work, or mum/mum, dad/dad..really does work
works for whom?
Not for the parent who has to sacrifice their career ambitions surely?

I think there are a lot of people\industries this hasn’t affected that much. At my H’s work the hours are the same just from home, most people he works with are either men with no kids or men with a Sahw. The few women are childless. Flexibility or childcare has not been mentioned to them once, there has been no allowances for having 3 small children home. I did ask h what would happen if I either also had to work from home or if I was a key worker and he had no idea, it hadn’t been mentioned in his huge team of people.

I’ve had suspected corona virus for the last 2 weeks and been feeling really ill. But there has been no allowances at all and I’ve still had to look after the kids.

I know school isn’t childcare but before I decided to have children I knew it was there from 4/5 years old. It directly affected my decision. If there had been no school and we were expected to crack on with full time childcare and education of them ourselves till they were 18 there’s no way I’d choose to have more than one, if any.

We decided to have 3 knowing the childcare costs would be more than I could earn and agreed I would be a sahm to actually save the family money. But of course we knew H’s wages were enough (just, at the time) to support us all.

I think most kids would benefit from one stay at home parent. Even if it was a different parent each day. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if a four day week became something? Or a slightly staggered start so we could avoid breakfast. Lots more flexibility.

I think this situation has shown how many people are living on the edge - the edge of their finances, the edge of their available time and energy.
There isn't a simple solution, but I think it is interesting how much caring roles have been critical both to getting through this and to what happens next.
The way we all live needs to be more resilient.
I think the Government will start moving towards easing some restrictions soon, but doubt any significant gathering of people is going to happen this year.
Schooling at home to some degree and home working I reckon (for those who can) will be significant for months to come.
I think the Government will increasingly reduce the furlough scheme too. We're in for a long haul to get out of this - unless a vaccine is available.

Well firstly school simply is childcare - as in, my children are the responsibility of the school for regular, scheduled hours while I work? The childcare element is at least as important as the education. More so in times like these?

Secondly, I and almost every mother I know works, mostly part time, around school hours with grandparents or after school clubs helping. Jobs like mine, at home during school hours only, pays way above average (I have qualifications and loads of experience) should increase after this as we get used to no commuting and actually being quite productive at home (if only the kids weren't there)

I think this shows that the traditional model of mum at home, dad at work, or mum/mum, dad/dad..really does work!

Until someone gets sick, or dies, or buggers off, and the person with no recent job history or qualifications is left adrift without options. My DH got very unexpectedly, very seriously ill a couple of years ago when we had young DCs and I was newly pregnant. He had employment insurance but it takes a long time to kick in, and doesn't cover all the extra costs that come up with someone who needs a lot of care and can't do anything at home or at work (especially when I then developed a pregnancy-related condition and couldn't climb the stairs at home), then a long part time return to work. Without savings, a decent salary and maternity package for me, we would have been absolutely screwed.

Both partners working part time or shorter hours would be more equal and hugely reduce risk - but it would require men to step up at home, and is hard when so many women earn so much less than their partners.

Just been having an interesting discussion about this with class mums. A couple of mums were saying they'd more or less given up on their job to teach their kids. One mum felt very strongly that parents should be prioritising their jobs because of the impending economic crisis, and that was more important than school right now.

Living wage plus flexible working and shorter working days as standard. As it is, it turns out a large part of the school day is childcare as they can only concentrate for a certain amount of time ( in primary school). I bet with proper timeamabe mm want you could do get what you needed to do do e in less time. The days of presenteeism are over. From now on people will be judged on what they produce, not how many hours they're sat behind a desk.

Children have to go to school from age 5, it's a legal requirement. There is no benefit to having a SAHP after that point if the parents are able to (between them) facilitate drop offs, pick ups, illness and holidays.

One thing I'd like to hope will come out from this will be flexible employers (unless absolutely impossible). Allowing both parents opportunity to do their jobs from home some of the time and with flexible hours so they are able spend more time with their children alongside their careers. IME many many employers are totally inflexible for no reason other than they don't trust their employees and they don't like change. This could potentially change this for many people.

It also will hopefully change our inherently sexist views that the bulk of the childcare and house work should be done by women. I know there are exceptions but this is still very much the norm in my social circle.

I disagree that most households need 2 salaries for a modest standard of living

Haahaahaa!

Children have to go to school from age 5, it's a legal requirement.

No they don't and no it isn't.

TinRoof

Maybe not the norm, but many families manage with one wage, some even manage on one small wage and benefit top up.
So, tell these people they can't manage.
you can tell there are higher outgoings when people talk of salaries and not wages
But as i said, society needs both types, it's not a competition.

Children have to go to school from age 5, it's a legal requirement.

No they don't and no it isn't.

Erm, yes they do. Well the term after they turn 5. This thread isn't about people who homeschool their kids normally.

"...manage with one wage, some even manage on one small wage and benefit top up."

Yep ... the ones that manage on a small wage are "just surviving ". For any decent standard of living, you need 2 wages. That is to pay for adequate housing, food and a few commodities like internet, TV and a car.

Well it's not as though alternative childcare choices are in abundance now. What do you think parents do in holiday time when they've still got to work? Grandparents (who are now vulnerable and need to shield so can't have the children) and holiday clubs (all now closed). So no, school is not childcare but it seems like it is right now because there are also no alternative choices.

Wow, didn't expect to start such a debate but glad I'm not the only one who sees this as an issue.

I think this probably sums up to me the best case scenario even if it's sadly unlikely, especially the last part:

Both partners working part time or shorter hours would be more equal and hugely reduce risk - but it would require men to step up at home, and is hard when so many women earn so much less than their partners.

I think working together is they key. I took the career hit with us as my wife had better earning potential. My reward is I get more time with our little one. Housework split down the middle.

It’s impossible to plan for a pandemic but I do think a bit more planning and responsibility needs to go into having children. Somewhere evolution screwed up ‘falling pregnant’ when it should be a planned action. And yes, I know planning isn’t always possible...
I’m in a team of five; two single mothers, two married with kids, one married infertile (me). I’m hugely sympathetic but everyone has been furloughed apart from me as they’ve got children to look after, so I’m working from home and I’m expected to cover everyone. Last week I did 63 hours. I have two auto immune conditions which have considerably worsened during this mess, yet I get cute photos via WhatsApp of the teams children enjoying cinema nights at home, arts & crafts etc. I know it’s rotten for everyone and I’m only getting the curated images and not the melt down tantrums but as this is week 7 for us, it’s hard for me not to feel resentful and exhausted. My doctor is going to sign me off.
I do think childcare should be cheaper, I completely hate zero hours contracts (how the hell is anyone supposed to plan or budget on that? I’m grateful I’m not on one), I do think there should be some limitation to CEO salaries which recognises the differing qualifications and skills between an IT manager and a cleaner or a financial controller and a security guard, but doesn’t make the gulf between them so ridiculous. Equally, everyone deserves life balance including those who don’t have kids. The next time one of my colleagues drops the can and expects me to carry it because “you don’t have kids, so you just don’t understand” I may scream so loud they’ll hear me on the moon. Their lives may revolve around their children, I shouldn’t be forced to structure my life around their kids too.