To think translators shouldn't be paid royalties?

[Thisfeelslikearipoff]

I'm a published author and one of my books is about to go into another language. This book has been published in several languages already and I am familiar with the international translation process. To my astonishment, for the first time, this translator has tried to make her being paid royalties from book sales a part of her contractual agreement.

My immediate instinct is that no, she shouldn't be claiming royalties here. That is not to diminish her role in any way; I fully acknowledge the effort involved in translating thoughts and concepts from one language to another, and I fully acknowledge the obviously crucial nature of the translators role in a translation. A translation involves several individuals and entities doing their part in a professional manner. There is the author, the translator, the publisher, the distributor, the PR and media company etc etc. Everybody's role is crucial.

After I got this request I did some research and found that yes, for some people this actually is a thing, and I even came across a bizarre argument on a translators website where translators were forcefully asserting that they ought to be "fighting for our rights" to be paid royalties on book sales!

My take on it is this - the translator deserves to be properly compensated for their work, but only once. I really am feeling put out by this, and honestly the financial aspect is the least of what bothers me. I am annoyed that she feels she has a right to royalties on my work. She did not come up with these thoughts and concepts; her role is to bridge the gap between one language and another. AIBU to think she shouldn't be paid royalties on each copy sold?

By 'they are entitled to something', I meant 'they are entitled to royalties and the percentage is negotiable'. It never occurred to me in the wildest dreams that you'd consider not paying the upfront fee.

OP I can only imagine you don’t speak another language and therefore don’t know how difficult this work is .
I speak 5 languages 3 fluently and translating is not only very hard work but with the likes of books you can end of doing almost rewrites of paragraphs and sometimes whole pages to make it work , preserve the correct tone etc and idioms and catchphrases etc are notorious to nail .

Royalties are reasonable compensation as a previous poster said a good translation will sell your book and represents your skills as a writer well .
A bad translation could mean you do not gain a following or good reputation in that country or countries that speak that language .
Congratulations btw in having books published

Literary translation is an art form, not a science, and the fact you liken it to a mirror sugests you don't understand or appreciate the translator's role at all. Compare versions of the same book by different translators if you want to see how much of an impact they have (this is always true, but even more so when the languages are very distant). Flaubert as mentioned above is a good example, or Murakami for a recent example - it feels like you''re reading two different books with the same plot.

Though you haven't come across them, royalties are common within the industry internationally so it seems crazy to take offence. They might be standard for her specific language pair, depending on the convention in countries where that language is used, for example. Royalties also don't mean the translator is necessarily (or ever) making big bucks: often publishing houses use it as a way of underpaying translators and they'd be better off with a flat fee. If you don't want her give her royalty rights, then just negotiate or use someone else. She will know her own value and whether it's worth compromising on the issue.

Does the translator want the same flat fee as well as royalties? I didn't think that was usual, but they took a lower fee and royalties?

“The fact that you haven’t come across this before just shows you’ve only been dealing with inexperienced translators, not true professionals who are experienced and have honed their craft.”

The fact that you'd make such an assumption-based judgement call on a career you know nothing about renders all of your opinions here irrelevant.

Of course more experienced literary translators generally secure royalties.

I’m curious what makes you think this poster isn’t familiar with the profession - they’re right.

I’m also curious why you came on a parenting site to garner opinions then declared that no-one here is a translator so they’re all wrong.

translation is essentially an admin job

How fucking ignorant

Oof. Error of judgment on my part using the ‘admin’ word. Lots of twisted knickers over that one.

I still think it is though. A detailed, difficult form of ‘admin’ albeit.

No need for anyone to pop a vein over the word though - it’s just one persons opinion. Feel free to ignore.

I still think it is though. A detailed, difficult form of ‘admin’ albeit.

You clearly haven’t the first notion when it comes to literary translation. It’s been pointed out at length on this thread. Yet you wear your ignorance with pride.

Translation is a highly skilled role that involves artistry, but then so is the art of cover production, and nobody in the creative department is looking for royalties per copy sold although their art is stamped on the cover of the book

Ah but I think that's because of the scope of work, the size of the project.

As I believe that illustrators who work on a book (as in illustrating pages not just the cover) do often get royalties, which reflects the level to which their work brings the original words to life I guess? Which is more comparable to the scope of work of a translator but even then not as much work as the translator does.

The fact that you'd make such an assumption-based judgement call on a career you know nothing about renders all of your opinions here irrelevant.

Not that I need to justify myself to you but I’ve also had books published. You can’t determine other people’s opinions irrelevant (particularly those who’ve had a hand in the industry) just because you don’t like what they’re saying

I really don’t give a shit Laurie. I don’t care enough about the subject further than giving my initial opinion based on my limited knowledge of the subject (as I pointed out). I’ve read nothing since that changes my opinion.

Feel free to ignore me.

Admin job 🤦‍♀️
😂😂😂

I wouldn’t have a problem with this. At the end of the day you will still end up better off as you’ll be selling your work into another market.

I do think translating does have an element of creativity to it. Yes, she is translating your words and creative ideas, but a good or bad translation can make a huge difference as to how well you book is received in that country.

I can see why a skilled translator may be in a position to demand a royalty in addition to their fee. Or you can go with a less proven, or possibly less skilled flat fee translator.

Does the translators royalty get deducted from your royalty? Can you negotiate that it comes out of publishers share? (I work in copyright but not in books.)

I don’t know much about the industry norms, but I actually picked up a book today that has been translated from Swedish into English. It’s bern done irritatingly badly, to the point where I’m not sure I can be bothered to continue with it and certainly won’t bother buying any of the author’s other books.

I read a lot of translated fiction and it’s not often that I have a negative experience like this. But it does demonstrate the importance of the skill of the translator and that can make or break the success of your book in the countries where it is sold in that particular language.

Branding Anthony Burgess an administrator? I've heard it all now.

As he said, “Translation is not a matter of words only: it is a matter of making intelligible a whole culture.” As such, the best translators have a literary bent themselves.

I can be bothered to continue with it and certainly won’t bother buying any of the author’s other books.
I would check the translator on other books. It is possible that they changed them after bad feedback.

(I mean, FFS, you wouldn't have any access to an entire foreign-language market without this person. How rude to assume all the money for that market belongs to you, when you've not lifted a finger?!)

You can’t determine other people’s opinions irrelevant (particularly those who’ve had a hand in the industry) just because you don’t like what they’re saying

Having been translated in ten languages now, yes, I can determine your assertion that I've only been translated by amateurs irrelevant. I can also further determine that if you're prepared to make that assertion you're likely talking out your ass on other points too.

Royalties for translators is not industry standard, and I did not come on here seeking assistance to make a business decision; I came on here to query peoples opinions because I was genuinely curious about attitudes towards royalties for translators and whether or not they're generally considered reasonable. It seems according to some posters though that we should all be enquiring about fucking barbeques and trampolines.

Worked at a major global publisher. We pay the translator ( well) for the job as a one off - no royalties. And the only way I could see this being changed was if the translator name was recognised well enough to increase the books sales accordingly. Which in some fiction markets can be the case.
Get your publisher to negotiate and advise you - do they think using this particular translator will significantly increase sales? If so I would make sure that the translator royalty comes out of the publisher cut not yours - you should get the same royalties and step up % as sales go up as usual. This should t be a cost to you, it’s essentially a production cost ( or should be chucked into editorial or even marketing costs.)

I've been translated to 20 languages. Ha

Fiction translation can be an absolute art form - which is why the money is very, very good for an experienced translator.
Non-Fiction, not so much and we often get a couple of technical reads done on the translation.

I won’t pretend I know anything about it but I do see a comparison with recording artists and cover versions. I know the set up and work is different but the principle is the same. Your work relies on good translations of nuances, colloquialisms and understanding the culture it’s aimed at for any success in another country otherwise why not just put it through a translator programme?

Cat Stevens/Yusuf Islam rightly retained profit from the success of Boyzone’s cover of Father & Son but that profit wouldn’t have existed without their interpretation and presentation to a whole audience/generation who were highly unlikely to ever seek out his original version. Both are entitled to continue to profit from royalties since they have both had an artistic input.

I haven't heard of this. Why don't you bounce it back and ask her to reduce her fee if she wants a royalty share as well? Or just say no if you really don't want her to have a share?

At least she involved you. We got translated into Madarin with some random author's name, printed all over the jacket, as if it was her work and not a translation, with our images, and with NO royalities to the original author. And nothing we can feasibly do about it. People are scum.

How rude to assume all the money for that market belongs to you, when you've not lifted a finger?!

Well here's someone who knows fuckall about the publishing industry. "All the money for that market belongs to you" - What?! An author is typically paid between 7 and 10%.

Also, unless you're using an audio recorder, it'd be damn hard to write a book without lifting a finger!