To think translators shouldn't be paid royalties?

[Thisfeelslikearipoff]

I'm a published author and one of my books is about to go into another language. This book has been published in several languages already and I am familiar with the international translation process. To my astonishment, for the first time, this translator has tried to make her being paid royalties from book sales a part of her contractual agreement.

My immediate instinct is that no, she shouldn't be claiming royalties here. That is not to diminish her role in any way; I fully acknowledge the effort involved in translating thoughts and concepts from one language to another, and I fully acknowledge the obviously crucial nature of the translators role in a translation. A translation involves several individuals and entities doing their part in a professional manner. There is the author, the translator, the publisher, the distributor, the PR and media company etc etc. Everybody's role is crucial.

After I got this request I did some research and found that yes, for some people this actually is a thing, and I even came across a bizarre argument on a translators website where translators were forcefully asserting that they ought to be "fighting for our rights" to be paid royalties on book sales!

My take on it is this - the translator deserves to be properly compensated for their work, but only once. I really am feeling put out by this, and honestly the financial aspect is the least of what bothers me. I am annoyed that she feels she has a right to royalties on my work. She did not come up with these thoughts and concepts; her role is to bridge the gap between one language and another. AIBU to think she shouldn't be paid royalties on each copy sold?

@Thisfeelslikearipoff You don't seem to appreciate that translation is also in a real and practical sense the creation of a piece of work. It's not the same as delivering or any other part of the process!

Since a question in there is: Is there grant funding available to support the costs of your translation? that reads to me like an arrangement that might be made in the absence of payment for service @ScarfLadysBag. That's not the case here. In this case the translator is being paid (and well paid) for her service with a flat fee.

@totallyyesno Only in the same way that an editor, copy-editor or proofreader works on a piece of work. They don't get royalties as they are paid by the publishers, just as a translator doesn't get royalties as he/she is paid by the publishers.

Have you got an agent, OP?

A good translation can make it break a book, honestly, some translations are unreadable

Translating well is very hard. It’s an art to convey another person’s words in another language without losing subtleties, cadance, humour etc

So I’m with the translators here

In any case, wasn't this in your contract with the foreign publisher? The translator can't decide she wants royalties now - it's in the contract what should happen.

As an author of over 30 published books including bestsellers, I agree you shouldn't pay the translator royalties, it's not a usual agreement. You pay them per 1000 words same as an editor. I would find a different translator, there's plenty of them around. You won't find much helpful advice in a non-industry website though so I don't think MN was the best place to ask if you were being unreasonable lol. Good luck sorting it out.

Actually, developmental editors can entirely restructure and reshape a book, lead to whole characters and storylines being changed, removed, added. Their input can totally change a book. But they also do not get royalties, even though without their input the book probably wouldn't have been publishable in the first place 🤷‍♀️ This is how the industry works. Translation is classed as derivative, not creation.

Note that the Society of Authors makes no mention of translators receiving ongoing royalties, although it does happen sometimes.

Authors who are traditionally published can get as low as 6/7% royalties sometimes, with generally a maximum of about 30%, so although a couple of percent might sound small, when taken in context it actually isn't.

@TheHumansAreDefinitelyDead Nobody is saying that a translator doesn't do a good job (though some really don't.)

(I'm assuming you're self-pubbing in foreign languages here, if you're doing this through a publisher they should pay the translator a salary/contract fee same as any editor).

Without the translator your book would be unreadable in many countries, they are making it possible for you to sell many more copies so why begrudge them their earnings from the increased sales ?

A translation of a novel is not simply rendering words and ideas from one language to another. The translator has to be a skilled writer in their own right to produce an enjoyable and readable book. An effective translation could be a work of art in itself.

This is broadly how I see it.

There are works with various different translations available and people will choose which translator's work they wish to read, rate them against each other...

I don't think it should be equal remuneration to the author, but I do think royalties make sense.

Otherwise you could just chuck it through Google translate.

OP, are you self-published and dealing with these people personally?

You don't seem to appreciate that translation is also in a real and practical sense the creation of a piece of work.

That's right, I don't. Because it's not the creation of a piece of work. It's the translation of a piece of work. The translator is not creating something out of nothing here, she is holding a linguistic mirror up to something that already exists and repeating it in a different way.

If you're self-publishing it, the Alliance of Independent Authors (ALLi) might have some advice.

Also a good translator shouldn't need to be 'incentivised' to do a good job. You do a good job because it's your job and you are free to accept or turn down work as you like if you don't agree with the payment terms. Anyone accepting a job and thus the payment terms should be doing their best job or you're a poor translator/editor/proofreader. If you can't do a good job, then you don't take the job.

Yes, the translator should get royalties.
I'm amazed you haven't come across that before, OP.
As a PP mentioned, there is the possibility of negotiating them as a flat fee (if the translator agrees) but of course she should be compensated.

You will also find there are issues around copyright.

I do think you are underestimating the value of the translation. I can think of several animated films, for instance, where some of the foreign language versions are a damned sight better than the original. Without it they wouldn't have been successful in other countries.

If the translator accepts an initial lower fee, I think a 1 to 2% royalty on sales of the translated version is fair, as long as you, the author is getting a substantially larger percentage. It's extra sales you wouldn't otherwise have, after all. Translation is creative work, too. You wouldn't want a computer doing it!

@stickygotstuck, do you actually have any understanding of the publishing business? You don't sound as though you do.

Have you got an agent, OP?

I haven't, although I really ought to get one in order to do away with these headaches!

I don't understand why people seem to be answering the OP as if she's questioning the value of a good translator. She clearly isn't. She's asking about industry norms.

Which I have no knowledge of, so off I fuck

If you're self-publishing it, the Alliance of Independent Authors (ALLi) might have some advice.

Also a good translator shouldn't need to be 'incentivised' to do a good job. You do a good job because it's your job and you are free to accept or turn down work as you like if you don't agree with the payment terms. Anyone accepting a job and thus the payment terms should be doing their best job or you're a poor translator/editor/proofreader. If you can't do a good job, then you don't take the job.

What @ScarfLadysBag said. The only people you might consider paying royalties to is your audiobook narrator if you want to do profit split on ACX rather than pay them upfront which is also an option. Personally I don't see it as a creativity issue. Generally if you are the one marketing the book, it's going out to your newsletter, you're paying for Amazon AMS ads, Bookbub features and Facebook ads, you should be making the proportional profit from that. A pretty translation is absolutely worthless without marketing power behind it and these days even trad published authors have to do their fair share of that (and translators don't).

None of my translators have had royalties, only a flat fee. Same way the copy editor and proofreader got flat fees, and the editor got a salary. Only the author (and illustrator) should get royalties, with your agent's 15% knocked off.

You wouldn't need an agent to self publish, you'd need a PA or marketing assistant.
And if you're going through a publisher for this translation, they should be negotiating industry standard contracts. So it wouldn't be your problem unless you have a book that goes through a publisher in English but for which you have retained translation rights (I have a dozen or so of these).

she is holding a linguistic mirror up to something that already exists and repeating it in a different way.

If that's really what you think, then why don't you just run it all through Google Translate? Looking round I have some books on my shelves in different versions because I have different translations - a translation is definitely a work of creation and it is frankly insulting that you see it on the same level as delivery. You really don't seem to have much idea of what translation entails. Having said that, this is a business and you are entitled to negotiate for whatever you like but I think you are wrong.

All translators I know have some kind of royalties? It's a bloody hard job. You need to come up with something what doesn't change the meaning but will actually make sense to new audience. The worst are various sayings and children's rhymes. So painful sometimes!