To think translators shouldn't be paid royalties?

[Thisfeelslikearipoff]

I'm a published author and one of my books is about to go into another language. This book has been published in several languages already and I am familiar with the international translation process. To my astonishment, for the first time, this translator has tried to make her being paid royalties from book sales a part of her contractual agreement.

My immediate instinct is that no, she shouldn't be claiming royalties here. That is not to diminish her role in any way; I fully acknowledge the effort involved in translating thoughts and concepts from one language to another, and I fully acknowledge the obviously crucial nature of the translators role in a translation. A translation involves several individuals and entities doing their part in a professional manner. There is the author, the translator, the publisher, the distributor, the PR and media company etc etc. Everybody's role is crucial.

After I got this request I did some research and found that yes, for some people this actually is a thing, and I even came across a bizarre argument on a translators website where translators were forcefully asserting that they ought to be "fighting for our rights" to be paid royalties on book sales!

My take on it is this - the translator deserves to be properly compensated for their work, but only once. I really am feeling put out by this, and honestly the financial aspect is the least of what bothers me. I am annoyed that she feels she has a right to royalties on my work. She did not come up with these thoughts and concepts; her role is to bridge the gap between one language and another. AIBU to think she shouldn't be paid royalties on each copy sold?

I’m a linguist and have been a translator, though not of books.

I was once asked to translate, for a pittance, a novel that seemed very crap to me. I declined the assignment. But if I had taken it, made it readable in English, and as a result that novel in my translation had turned into the next big thing? Then I’d have felt like a real mug. If the translator is opening a new market for you, why should their remuneration not be proportionate to sales?

Surely it's just a contractual negotiation. She can ask for anything really and you can accept or not.

I'm a literary translator (12 novels published to date). I usually charge a flat fee of 100 to 120 EUR per 1000 words and 2.5% royalties. I think this is fairly standard (into English and for a major publisher). I have translated 2 books for a flat fee only and 1 for royalties only (50% - a self-published author... and never again. The percentage decreases once I've earned a certain amount). I've never had dealings with the author when it comes to the contract. I always deal with the big bods at the publishing house, so I don't know what's going on here. I only ever communicate with my authors if I have questions about the text (and again, this is via the editorial team or publisher). Why are you even negotiating with the translator?

Of course its fair, it is one of several options for paying for such work.

When I illustrate a book, I work out how many sales I think it's going to get, and that tells me whether I ask for a flat fee, flat fee plus royalties, or just royalties.

If I think its going to sell well then I'll ask for a lower flat fee but a small percentage of royalties.

I am highly unlikely to ask for JUST royalties, and if I think a book has a limited market I will likely ask for a flat fee.

Those hiring me are perfectly at their liberty to negotiate, or refuse my terms - thats how this works.

Its really entirely up to you, but I think you are being very unreasonable to suggest the translator is being unreasonable!

If it bothers you so much to deal with this, get an agent and pay THEM a percentage to sort this shit out for you.

It's not really possible ti jidgethis without knowing what the market rates are in each scenario. And those are often dictated by what a publisher will pay, surely. Bit like I've no clue what a reasonable rate is for a plumbing job, so I ask for five quotes and know who's taking the piss pretty soon. If the translator is taking the piss (i.e. asking for big fee plus royalties), they'll soon be found out. Or maybe he or she is somehow the most famous (lol), amazing translator in the country. In which case I guess this would have been put to you by their agent.

No point replying to the OP, they've flounced off because they weren't allowed to spread racism.

If it’s a novel or poetry where translation is very much an art than a science YABU. If it’s non fiction I see your point.

@Theeighthelephant Ha! She/He sounded like a piece of work.

I'm guessing @Thisfeelslikearipoff wasn't writing a sequel to How To Win Friends And Influence People! What an attitude!

Sorry, haven't read the whole thread but surely this has a lot to do with expected sales? If someone translated e.g. a textbook that became a standard one or a bestseller, then royalties plus fee would be very different in outcome to flat fee. Whereas I can see why someone might accept a flat fee for an annual report or programme notes - something with a limited circulation.

@phineyj

Allow me to summarise the thread for you:

OP: A translator has requested something I consider to be outrageous but I have actually already discovered is fairly common. Does this sound fair?

Most people: Yes, it sounds pretty fair.

Some other people: You may find that fairness doesn't come into it and actually it's a legal obligation.

OP: Fuck off. What do you lot know?

Timely: mobile.twitter.com/john_self/status/1258720576363016193

Is John on MN 😂

I'm not interested in your professional experience. I wouldn't think to consult Mumsnet for professional expertise. I asked for peoples personal opinions on whether they thought this situation was reasonable or fair.

Oh that’s funny, because further upthread you told someone their opinion was meaningless as (according to you)they don’t have any professional experience in the industry.

Is this what’s known as Schrödinger’s arsehole?

Presumably since the publisher has left you to negotiate with the translator direct, any royalties would need to come from your share as you can't give away other parties' rights.

Have you spoken to your publisher about all of this? Did they tell you you had to arrange translation or did you offer?

Not sure that follows, royalties would be on the sales of the translation.

No actual proper publisher is going to let authors randomly negotiate translation rights. That's what they have foreign rights departments and subsidiary rights contracts for. I suspect OP is a self-publisher or using some online platform, which is all fine and dandy, but you know, don't then claim to be the fount of all knowledge on mainstream industry practices

No actual proper publisher is going to let authors randomly negotiate translation rights

Bless! I was thinking that, because my family members always talked with publishers, never with authors, but I thought maybe it's standard where they are and not everywhere

Not sure that follows, royalties would be on the sales of the translation

Yes, but the author only gets a percentage of those sales, so they can only give away a cut of what the publisher is giving them - they can't give away the publisher's or anyone else's share as it's not theirs to give away.

Obviously it's different if the publisher is negotiating with the translator, but if it's the author, they can only agree to share their own portion.

This assumes there's an actual contract in place with a third party publisher as OP has suggested is the case, of course.

I see what you mean, I was assuming the involvement of a publisher.