To think translators shouldn't be paid royalties?

[Thisfeelslikearipoff]

I'm a published author and one of my books is about to go into another language. This book has been published in several languages already and I am familiar with the international translation process. To my astonishment, for the first time, this translator has tried to make her being paid royalties from book sales a part of her contractual agreement.

My immediate instinct is that no, she shouldn't be claiming royalties here. That is not to diminish her role in any way; I fully acknowledge the effort involved in translating thoughts and concepts from one language to another, and I fully acknowledge the obviously crucial nature of the translators role in a translation. A translation involves several individuals and entities doing their part in a professional manner. There is the author, the translator, the publisher, the distributor, the PR and media company etc etc. Everybody's role is crucial.

After I got this request I did some research and found that yes, for some people this actually is a thing, and I even came across a bizarre argument on a translators website where translators were forcefully asserting that they ought to be "fighting for our rights" to be paid royalties on book sales!

My take on it is this - the translator deserves to be properly compensated for their work, but only once. I really am feeling put out by this, and honestly the financial aspect is the least of what bothers me. I am annoyed that she feels she has a right to royalties on my work. She did not come up with these thoughts and concepts; her role is to bridge the gap between one language and another. AIBU to think she shouldn't be paid royalties on each copy sold?

I am a translator. My thought on this is the following: you get what you pay for. I have translated creative pieces, and frankly, you are writing a new book. The overall idea is not yours, but the writing of concepts from one language to another, finding the right word, every word, retaining consistency and tone throughout the book, double entendre, cultural untranslatable concepts...it's so so time consuming and actually I think I'd find it easier to write a book than translate it. That's why I translate technical writing, because I know the lingo, can bang it out fast and charge a fortune to medical companies, while authors are already underpaid and the process of translating fiction requires flare, an ability to translate whole concepts, adapt them and make them sound "right". It takes me longer to translate a six phrase slogan at times than it does a 10 page corporate regulation.
It's a free market though, find another translator who doesn't charge royalties. If all the decent translators band together and demand it though, you may find yourself with a poor translation of you don't comply in the (distant) future.

I have no experience in this field but just wanted to add that translators don’t just translate word for word or phrase for phrase.
There’s no point in my adding that they need to understand the gist, inference, mood, meaning, reference, colloquialisms, dialects, technical references, relevant culture etc....... in effect, re-writing a book that will be very different from yours .
Just saying.

Translators do a difficult job and get almost no recognition.

I've worked as a translator (it's not my main job, but I've done it within my academic field and for friends). IMO there's a massive difference between fiction and non-fiction. You haven't said what you're wanting translated, but I assume fiction. Non-fiction I would say a flat fee is fair: although the translator needs to make it sound natural in the TL, anyone with the linguistic competence in both languages should be able to do a reasonable job. Translating fiction is completely different and absolutely should be rewarded for the artistic and creative skills it requires. In my experience, translating fiction is a lot more difficult than writing it in the first place, because you have a load of added constraints but still have to make the writing flow, not just naturally, but in the same style as the original. You might have to reimagine ways of speaking to account for characters with different accents, switch between registers, even invent characters' names (cf. the Harry Potter translations of Tom Marvolo Riddle, particularly the French) etc. etc. Fiction translation is not just another step along the publication line, it's an integral part of the creative process. If the author is receiving royalties, it's only fair that the translator should too.

Non fiction translations for publication should receive royalties too. It’s the manner of distribution that counts, not the content. The divide is an artificial one anyway, there’s plenty of creative content in philosophy and art criticism and plenty of technical content in police procedurals, for instance.

Just to add re: translating fiction/non-fiction - to take the (ridiculous) example of translating a menu that the pp gave, of course no royalties should be paid. Do you think the original menu writer gets royalties on them? Of course not. I translate mainly non-fiction and don't expect royalties because the sort of texts that I translate don't generate royalties for the authors! Fiction is a completely different story.

I’m a lawyer.

Looking at it from the perspective of intellectual property law, although it is derivative, a translation is eligible for copyright as an original work. Since a translation, especially literary translation, involves considerable creative effort, labour and skill on the part of the translator, it can be registered as an original work.

I think it supports the argument the translators are making.

Non fiction translations for publication should receive royalties too.

Yes, I agree. Just to clarify, I meant that non-fiction shouldn't receive royalties when the original text doesn't. A non-fiction book obviously generates royalties. Washing machine instructions, not so much!

Yes but those are a different category in legal terms.

Translating is a specialist skill. Translate it yourself if you don't want to pay appropriately

Yes but those are a different category in legal terms.
Granted. I was just commenting on the fairness of it!

So don’t and lose sales and that country then 🙅🏻‍♀️

I’m guessing you don’t speak two languages and haven’t studied literature in various translations? Compare a couple of Flaubert translations.

I immediately thought of the Constance Garnett translation of War and Peace which was for many years pretty much the only English language version of the novel and it was... ok.
And then came that more recent one where the soldiers speak in a rough and ready soldier way, and the aristocrats are more high falutin' and the difference to the work is amazing.

Translation is genuinely hard work if you do it properly and deserves proper compensation, so YABU.

It's a contract negotiation. The translator is entitled to suggest terms, or changes to your suggested terms, and royalties are one payment option. You don't have to accept the translator's terms. You can walk away and choose someone else, or you can negotiate with the translator and reach another solution that is acceptable to both of you. You could suggest putting the translator's name on the cover (unless that is already happening) or agree to pay royalties if sales exceed some vast amount of copies, which prevents the translator being really hard done by if the book turns into the next Girl with the Dragon Tattoo and they've only been paid a flat fee. It's a process.

I do think you are being unreasonable for being so outraged by the very suggestion though.

Translation can be very skilled, so if your work is of literary merit and it matters how it is translated, and you should want to pay accordingly. If however your work is just trash novels (sounds like it), then I can see why you would not want to pay much. So just say you won't pay.

We used to have bunch of books on idioms, sayings from different countries etc. Some things are incredibly difficult to translate so you would keep the meaning and it's understandable.
I still can't figure out how to say something so simple as "It was a busy day" in my native language properly😂

Best example of shitty translation, buy it's a TV series.
Moonlighting as in having a job on a side (with Willis) translated into Moon light as in actual moon up there light🤷🏻

Bit harsh to call OP’s work trash based on very little evidence.

There's a similar one with music recording. You either ask for a one off fee, or reduced fee and royalties.
Is she at the lower end, cost wise?

No, she's charging the absolute upper end of the fee scale, which I don't have a problem with. As I've said she deserves to be properly remunerated for her work. I've checked her out, she's a full time translator and is both accomplished and professional. I wouldn't quibble with her fee even if I was paying it myself.

Some people have wondered why I'm dealing with her at all. That's because I don't use an agent and she bypassed the publishers, contacting me directly because she has a particular interest in my work. I haven't enlisted her services, she's offered them.

I haven't enlisted her services, she's offered them.

And you're under no obligation to accept if you don't like her terms. As I said above, you're making a commercial transaction into an emotional decision.

Just send her to your publisher, they should be dealing with her not you.

If she approached you (I.e. she’s not tied to your publisher or whatever) and you’re not content with her terms, YAB even more U! Just don’t use her! Use someone else who will agree to remuneration terms with which you are content.

Seconding what @RosamundGarth said.

Well except that like I said, depending where she is, royalties might be a contractual obligation.

If however your work is just trash novels (sounds like it), then I can see why you would not want to pay much.

This issue is not about payment @Mistystar99, it is about royalties. You'll need to understand the difference if you want to take part in a conversation about publishing.

My feeling is that they are entitled to something as it is their skill that will or will not manage to bring your thoughts and art to readers. Whether your book will be well received in a different language, depends a lot on translators - not all of them are of the same quality and sensibility. Not all of them are good at capturing what makes author's style/book unique. That is why certain translations are more valuable and in demand than others of the exact same book.

I think what you’re failing to grasp is that she’s not asking for royalties on your book. She’s asking for royalties on a book that in legal terms she has written and which she owns the copyright.