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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

False allegation of sexual assault - what to do here??!

99 replies

What2dohere · 04/05/2020 13:26

NC for this one. The long story short is that myself and my younger sister are both forty-something women. My sister has had mental health issues treated with anti-psychotic drugs since her late teens. At around the time she was first diagnosed (and in part the reason she was diagnosed) was because she was accusing all and sundry of sexually assaulting her. She was staying with me at the time, came home with mad stories about teams of men trying to drag her into vans, replete with the 'evidence' of supposedly torn clothing etc.

Alarm bells first started ringing for me straight away after she showed me the clothing that she said had been partially ripped from her body. This was the same day the police interviewed her, at my insistence. I saw that the stitching in the trouser leg had been worked loose, basically the seam had been let down, there was no tearing of the material, and it was a double crease if you know what I mean, so that the stitching had been removed from the line where it sewed material together three times over. I was thinking that is very odd; it's not the sort of damage you'd expect from a mad melee where three men are trying to drag you into a van. It was too careful and methodical to fit the scene that she'd described. That was the first of the alarm bells that all was not as it seemed.

The second alarm bell came within days, when she accused both of our parents (one of whom is deceased) of sexually assaulting her in childhood. This confirmed my suspicions that she was fabricating sexual assault stories. I know my own parents, was raised in the same house, they were a long way from perfect but they sure as shit were not perverts. Also they raised several children; were we expected to believe they discovered their perversions only when it came to their youngest daughter?!

Twenty-something years on and numerous breakdowns later, during which time various other people have been accused of sexual assault, my sister is not in a good way at all. She has been medicated on and off for all this time, but unfortunately takes herself off her meds routinely. She is a single mother under the observation of social services for numerous reasons including her daughter fleeing the house for her own safety. Myself and other family members have had to step in at various points and report to social services for safeguarding issues.

Twice last year she physically assaulted me in the street and both times I had to defend myself. The first time I let it go but the second I contacted social services to report that she was charging at me in the street raging with aggression and hostility out of nowhere and for no reason, as this obviously meant she was back off her meds. Physically she didn't do much damage, although the crazy bug-eyed animosity was so disturbing. Several weeks later I got a call from the Police asking me to come down to the station as I had been reported for physical assault!

The lucky thing for me was that my partner had been with me at the time of this incident, it had been the middle of the afternoon, in the middle of the town main street, directly opposite the Police Station, so you couldn't get more public than that. I gave my statement and my partner gave his supporting statement and I heard nothing further from the police. That was about eight or nine months ago. I just assumed the police had let it go as I had a witness to events and my sister had not.

A few days back our other sister discovered a string of messages in her FB 'other folder' from our younger sister, from that time that she hadn't been aware of up till now, accusing me of sexual assault! She said that I had sexually assaulted her in the middle of the main street that day. At this point she has accused exactly half her immediate family members (and numerous others) of sexually assaulting her. This looks to me like the police took an allegation of sexual assault from my sister but never made me aware of it. I have not been accused of this in any official capacity but have been accused of it in those private messages from that time.

I would appreciate Mumsnet posters opinion on what to do from here? Should I let this go and forget about it as, if the report was made in an official capacity (which I believe it was) it was not taken seriously; or should I contact the police again (as I feel inclined to do) and insist on knowing if I have been accused of sexual assault here? And if so, honestly I would want my sister charged with making a false allegation.

There are obviously disturbing questions around whether my sister has ever been sexually assaulted in her life, and whether this behaviour points to something in her past, but whether or not that's the case she cannot spend her life going around making this enormously hurtful and damaging accusation wherever she sees fit. I am in a state of shock about the content of those messages and just feeling so lucky that I had an eye witness to the incident that day.

So should I let it go or pursue it? Yes I get that she has mental health issues, but it is just fucking outrageous that she thinks she make this allegation towards innocent people repeatedly on and off throughout her whole adult life. This kind of thing destroys lives just as surely as sexual assault itself. Also, for all I know (I don't know much about this) an uninvestigated allegation of this nature could lurk somewhere in my record and come back to harm me should I ever need a police check into my background.

I am so disturbed by this. Yes my sister needs help, but surely I should take steps to protect my reputation here? Another argument is that there's no damage to my reputation at present, but could be if I pursued this. I just don't know what to do for the best and would appreciate any advice.

OP posts:
TheClootieDumplin · 04/05/2020 17:34

OP, I also have a sister who's extremely unwell and its enough to say I can't even bring myself to talk of the things she's said and the accusations she's made. All completely without substance and the fact is - people can say they've been sexually abused when no such thing has ever happened to them.

ImDillDandin · 04/05/2020 17:34

You need legal advice and a restraining order against your sister. My mother and her husband had to resort to that when my sister started throwing around sexual assault allegations against mum's husband (sister was 20 yrs old when he came into mum's life). People like your sister are loose cannons and can cause untold damage to reputations and relationships.

My sister, whom I haven't seen in over 30 years, was always a liar and a stirer and I cut her out of my life as soon as I could. She would play the victim to elicit money and favours from people but as soon as they started to cotton on, or the money and favours stopped, she played the sexual assault card against them, be they family friends or relations. When she had a child the accusations turned into the child having been assaulted. She never went to the police, just spread rumours.

The allegation towards mum's husband came when mum wouldn't give her any more money. That's when they sought legal advice. That's what you need to do and cut her out of your life.

TheClootieDumplin · 04/05/2020 17:35

In my experience false allegations are quite common and are a result, very often of bad therapy

It doesn't even need to get as far as therapy. It can even be reading a book.

hoodathunkit · 04/05/2020 17:35

I think its dangerous to call out all rape crisis centres based on bad practise in some. The one I accessed was amazing (as I’ve said repeatedly, I know, I will stop, promise!)

I am sure that most rape crisis services are staffed by people who want nothing but the best for their clients. Which is a good thing.

The problem arises when rape crisis centres use contorversial methods of psychotherapy that can cause false memories of abuse. Body therapies and group therapies are especially problematic in this respect.

The problem is not simply that innocent people can be falsely accused.

Just as serious is the fact that people who were raped and abused could end up having their credibility questioned if they go to court and the defense lawyer discovers that they have received a model of therapy known to generate false memories.

The fight for justice for falsely accused and the fight for justice for survivors of sexual abuse are parlallel fights that we should be fighting in the same army and pushing in the same direction.

I wish you well

hoodathunkit · 04/05/2020 17:41

Those of you who have relatives who have made false allegations, I would seriously request that you consider whether they may have been manipulated by a therapist or other mental health professional.

I have seen, with my own eyes, people being manipulated into believing terrible things about their family.

a couple of videos, this family is known to me and have suffered terribly because of false accusations

I would also like to say that my sisters gaslighted me and claimed that I had made false accusations against my father. They did it because of money. Money is very often a motivation both in terms of false allegations and deniial of real allegations in my experience

TheClootieDumplin · 04/05/2020 17:43

Those of you who have relatives who have made false allegations, I would seriously request that you consider whether they may have been manipulated by a therapist or other mental health professional

Nope. Nothing like that.

T0tallyFuckedUpFamily · 04/05/2020 17:44

Those of you who have relatives who have made false allegations, I would seriously request that you consider whether they may have been manipulated by a therapist or other mental health professional

Nope. Just an attention seeking, manipulative personality.

hoodathunkit · 04/05/2020 17:45

It doesn't even need to get as far as therapy. It can even be reading a book.

It doesn't even need a book

Redemption narratives are common in false memories

Books, therapists, random people just need to ask the question "what happened for you for you to have become a drug addict / thief / cheater / whatever?"

How wonderful to know that you don't have to take responsibility for bad choices and abusive behaviour. It was the incest / satanic ritual abuse / whatever that is to blame

What2dohere · 04/05/2020 21:33

Thank you everyone for your supportive comments and advice, and my apologies for causing confusion around my sisters exact mental health status. I am not a mental health expert by any stretch and do not know my sisters precise diagnosis, I only know that she was then (and has since repeatedly been) prescribed anti-psychotic drugs.

I know that her allegations over the years have been malicious in intent for a number of reasons, including the speed she's redacted them and the faux sincerity with which she's apologised for them when she sees she's got something to lose. As nasty as it is and as uncommon as it is, some people actually do fabricate these stories for nefarious purposes (reputational damage, entertainment, pure spite etc.)

The idea some posters seem to be entertaining is that a person is either mentally unwell, in which case they are delusional to the point of having no responsibility for their actions, or they are mentally healthy and in control of them. In reality it is sometimes one or the other, but it is also sometimes a bit of both. Excuse my language, but after donkey's years of watching my sister in action I know it is perfectly possible to be both mentally unwell and a high-riding cunt.

OP posts:
Apirateslifeforme · 04/05/2020 22:30

This is exactly the thing that my sister did throughout her teenage years.
She started out at 12 or 13 talking about people who had tried to drag her away, which we were all concerned about and believed and helped her, then she said that my daughters father tried to rape her (I will never know the answer of that one. Both prolific liars) then a boyfriend she had raped her, then she accused our step dad of looking at her funny (to the police) then she made a false allegation about someone to the police (this was the 4th/5th person she had spoken to the police about)
Then there were a further 4+ men who raped her.

This was all in a space of a few years.

I feel for you and your family, cant be close to someone, or trust someone like that.

I'd be inclined to just speak with the police, say what they say. If she has accused you of sexual assault, ask if there are any protective measures they can help you with as you are not the first person to be accused wrongly by her, and you want to be certain this situation is put to bed and that she cannot continue with these lies about you.

I'm sorry you're going through this.

hoodathunkit · 05/05/2020 21:08

It needs to be said that this whole horrible situation is complicated by the following issues:

Sometimes people (it is not only females who make false accusations) are sexually violated or otherwise abused and go on to make false allegations about innocent people, whether because of trauma / delusion / confusion or because of other reasons.

These things are complex and I think that the police should always take allegations seriously, but just not automatically believe the person making the allegations.

It is fairly common, and I have bitter personal experience of this, for one half of a family to acknowledge that sexual abuse happened and the other half to deny it, even if it happened under their noses. Even if seeral people in a family say that sexual abuse never happened it does not necesarly mean that it did not happen.

People may make false allegations for a number of reasons including but not limited to: financial gain (even a few thousand pounds is a lot of money for some), dellusion, false memories, spite, attention seeking, enjoying the role of "victim" and, importantly, to deflect attention from their own sexual abuse of others.

My understanding of the case of Carl Beech that his false allegations probably had elements of all of these motivating factors.

We have to be extremely careful to support the police in investigating allegations of sexual abuse and of using evidence and corroboration to support their work.

We should be extremely careful not to believe or disbelieve complainants. Evidence is key.

Jayfeem · 06/05/2020 07:12

hoodathunkit can you make your own thread please? You’ve completely hijacked the OP’s with a stream of through no one (and I mean no one) is getting anything from Confused

What2dohere · 06/05/2020 15:43

Thank you @Jayfeem. I am getting increasingly disturbed at the nature of these posts, framed to assert that survivors of sexual abuse shouldn't be believed without "evidence." Nothing about my current horrible experience should be used to dismiss the abuse of others. Predators are not disposed to assaulting in environments where there are witnesses, cctv cameras, or anything else that would meet the exacting standards of evidence @hoodathunkit seems to be suggesting. This is not a smash and grab in a jewellers store we're talking about here. A blanket policy of disbelieving without evidence would bring the already minuscule reporting rates down to nothing, and leave a great deal of emotional and psychological harm in its wake.

OP posts:
TheClootieDumplin · 06/05/2020 16:23

hoodathunkit can you make your own thread please? You’ve completely hijacked the OP’s with a stream of through no one (and I mean no one) is getting anything from confused

I agree. In fact its all rather worrying.

hoodathunkit · 06/05/2020 17:18

Sorry OP

I didn't mean to hijack the thread

Just commenting as someone with extensive experience of both real sexual abuse and bitter experience of therapy with a therapist who has caused many vulnerable people to make false allegations. As such I thought my experience was valid, but I can post elsewhere of course.

My experiences are extremely disturbing, I am very distressed by what has happened to me and to others, but apologies if my experiences have caused you distress, that was not my intention.

I also never said survivors of sexual abuse should be disbelieved without evidence and it is disingenuous to suggest that I said that.

People who claim that they have been sexually abused should be taken seriously and the police should investigate it, which means looking for evidence.

Surely the Carl Beech case demonstrated that automatically believing people who make claims of sexual abuse without fact checking - which is exactly what happened with Carl Beech - his claims could have been disproved easily - is not a proper way to proceed.

For the record I think that the police should neither believe not disbelieve but treat complainants with sensitivity and do their job as police, which is to investigate.

hoodathunkit · 06/05/2020 17:21

Nothing about my current horrible experience should be used to dismiss the abuse of others.

Agreed

However some posters here were claiming that their sisters had made false allegations and I have no way of knowing what happened in their situations do I?

False allegations happen all the time, but so do sexual assaults.

Unless there is evidence or someone was there themselves we cannot know what happened.

HeadacheAgainToday · 06/05/2020 17:33

I wouldn't pursue this with the police. Just ignore. If you don't know about it then it's not something that would ever come up in any employment checks etc... so just leave it.

As for your sister. I feel deeply sorry for her. People do not develop mental health difficulties this severe from nothing. My strong suspicion is some kind of severe abuse/sexual incident(s) in childhood. Might even be pre memory or pre verbal. But something has happened at some point. I hope she is able to at some point find a good therapist who can support and listen to her.

I hope she was treated empathically when she made the very first disclosure about the very first thing. It might not have been true, but would have been about something similar (eg. Someone might say the accuser is a stranger, or uncle, or brother, when in fact it's grandpa.... But rarely (if ever) do accusations come out of nowhere (initially at least) - and I say this from working in this field for many many years.) To dismiss someone or call them a lier or defend the accuser so ferociously can be v damaging

HeadacheAgainToday · 06/05/2020 17:34

Sorry, I mean defend the accused

HeadacheAgainToday · 06/05/2020 17:36

Surely the Carl Beech case demonstrated that automatically believing people who make claims of sexual abuse without fact checking

Why do you think Carl beech became a poedophile? Something happened to him in childhood. It is v likely he was sexually abused. Who by, we may never know.

RonObvious · 06/05/2020 17:55

I know it is perfectly possible to be both mentally unwell and a high-riding cunt.

I like this. My father has narcissistic personality disorder, and that sums him up beautifully.

I've been on the receiving end of a pathological liar before (not my father) so I know how painful it can be. In my case, I had to cut myself off from the person, as I was doing them more harm than good, because I couldn't disbelieve them. I was reinforcing the lies by reacting to them every time. Your situation is obviously different. Two things strike me: firstly, accusations of sexual assault tend to hang around. By escalating things, you may actually make things worse for yourself. Secondly, if you do escalate it, she may just work that into her story - make herself even more the victim.

Best piece of advice I ever got: never try to rationalise irrational behaviour. The less energy and time you can put into this situation the better. You really don't want to get sucked into her games - whatever the reason behind them.

funnylittlefloozie · 06/05/2020 18:42

Is anyone else frustrated that a thread the OP started in order to get help for herself, has been hijacked into a thread where her sister YET AGAIN gets all the attention?

Perhaps i am projecting.

hoodathunkit · 06/05/2020 20:12

Why do you think Carl beech became a poedophile? Something happened to him in childhood. It is v likely he was sexually abused. Who by, we may never know.

This is exactly the kind of thinking that prevailed in the therapy group I attended where the therapist give credence to recovered memories.

In fact there was a woman in the group who had no memories of being sexually abused but who had been invited to attend the group by the therapist because she said that she had sexually abused a child herself and therefore she must have been sexually abused and repressed the memory, otherwise she never would have done such a thing.

I attended a therapy group that was meant to be for women who had been raped and / or sexually abused and was horrified to discover that the group included a woman who claimed she had sexually abused a child, another woman who admitted she had allowed her child to be sexually abused by someone else and another woman who had violently abused her own child.

The group culture was very much guided by your cliam that to have abused a child, or allowed a child to be abused, you must have been abused yourself, even if you don't remember it.

It was an outrage.

Obviously some sexual predators have been abused as children, however it is fairly outrageous to suggest that Carl Beech must have been sexually abused by someone "by whom we may never know" when in fact he has been proved to be a lying psychopath and a paedophile.

Carl Beech made a string of extremely serious, false allegations against many completely innocent people, including an elderly war hero, all of whose lives were completely ruined.

He made a lot of money from his false allegations and went on the run in an attempt to evade justice.

Carl Beech is an absolutely disgusting person and his motives were very clearly at least partly financial / greed.

I would like to ask you some further questions about your "many years working in the field".

I don't want to hijack the OPs thread so would like to ask you whether you will enter into a debate with me on another thread tomorrow.

hoodathunkit · 06/05/2020 20:27

As for your sister. I feel deeply sorry for her. People do not develop mental health difficulties this severe from nothing.

It is not uncommon for people with serious mental illnesses such as paranoid shiophrenia for example, to have unshakable dellusions that their families abused them. You should know this very well if you work in mental health.

My strong suspicion is some kind of severe abuse/sexual incident(s) in childhood. Might even be pre memory or pre verbal. But something has happened at some point. I hope she is able to at some point find a good therapist who can support and listen to her.

You sound very familiar.

I definitely want to talk to you on a new thread

Sorry OP

I won't post on your thread any more

JamieLeeCurtains · 06/05/2020 20:28

@What2dohere if you report this thread for the derailing and start a new one, I wouldn't blame you

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