To ignore what I’ve found out.

[CD41]

Posting here for traffic. Decided to research my family tree. I’ve tried before and didn’t have enough time so thought lockdown might be perfect.

I already have a lot of info on my maternal grandmothers side but nothing on my maternal grandfathers side. I was incredibly close to my grandad. He only died a couple months ago but he didn’t talk about his family much.

So tonight I was doing some basic searching on ancestry. I learnt that my grandads mum and dad got married 8 months before he as born. Maybe it’s because she was pregnant? Who knows.

Doesn’t sound too bad but my grandad has a brother 5 years older than him who I always assumed to have the same father as they share the same name. I then discovered that my grandads dad appeared to be married until maybe 18 months before he was born. I never knew he had a first wife. It also means that he would have been married to first wife when my great uncle (still alive and in his 80’s) was born so likely not his dad after all unless it was an affair at first. It appears my grandads dads first wife died young. It didn’t seem likely they had children.

I tried finding my great uncles birth registration. It appears that his name was changed from his mother’s maiden name to my grandads surname. But obviously without seeing the birth certificate no idea who great uncles father is.

Bearing in mind my grandads dad died when he was very young and he cannot really remember him. It would also make sense as my grandad had the same name as his dad. Surely a first born son would take the name? Not the second? I had never even thought of that way before.

Now aibu to not say anything? I assume if my grandad did know he didn’t tell anyone or he may have just told my granny and they kept it quiet. Or maybe he didn’t know..

I guess nothing has changed for my grandad. His mum and dad were his parents regardless but it’s his brother who maybe lived a lie and they were in fact half brothers (I don’t think that makes any difference, my children have different fathers but consider them just brother and sister not half of anything).

They also had another older brother who their mum had really young.

Shall I just keep quiet? I worry if I tell my mum she’ll just go telling everyone and it’s probably not the right thing to do right now.

Aibu to keep it to myself?

You'll be surprised who knows what. I wouldn't say anything until the ones it will hurt most are no longer here.

Just from the postings here it is clear these "skeletons" in families are fairly common. What is clear is that people have always had sex outside marriage much to the contrary of what my mother tried to bring me up to believe. And have then been made to feel ashamed about it and had to cover it up. On my dads side of the family after his dad died he uncovered a really nasty story about how his Aunt whom he had very little contact with believed that her father - his grandfather had killed her mother by kicking her in the stomach when pregnant because he was drunk and got it into his head that the baby wasn't his. She definitely died from complications during losing a child and my grandad spent his childhood in an orphanage. Hid gradnfather was never tried, and possibly protected by the village policeman who was his brother. I asked my dad how he felt about hearing that as he had known his grandad because I pointed out if it was true he'd deprived him of a grandma and his dad mum. My dad really didn't know how to process the story, and it feels difficult knowing whether it was the right thing to do telling him, although violence against women has mostly gone unreported in the past and shouldn't be hidden.

Thanks all. My surprise wasn’t so much as the wedding months before my grandads birth it was that my grandads dad had been married before and his first wife died 3 years after my grandads older brother was born. I have no idea if they were still together when she died. I had only assumed that my grandad and his brother shared the same father due to having the same surname (although it appears great uncle had his mother’s maiden name at birth).

I have found out similar info in to way @CD41 also by researching my family tree where the dates don't add up but I haven't told anyone (and don't intend to). Secondly one of my parents wanted me to get them a passport and for that I needed their birth certificate which they didn't have so I had to get a copy. It seems that my grandfather (now passed away) wasn't their father. However I felt that at the age of my parents are it would be too shocking and they can do nothing anyway (all grandparents passed away so no info), so I haven't said anything.

@CD41 Great uncles birth registry has his mums maiden name and my grandads surname in brackets so it’s a little confusing

OK, that sounds like they were in a relationship but couldn't be married until his wife died. They could well have been living as if they were husband and wife all that time, but either way your great grandfather was on the scene at the time your great uncle was born, and willing to have a connection made on the birth certificate.

It may well have been something they felt uncomfortable about, and kept on the down-low, but it doesn't undermine the life they built together or the memories your family may have of them. If I were you I would do them the kindness of not making a thing of it all this time down the line.

I think, @CD41, that if the birth was formally reregistered, either GGF was the father and this was a longstanding affair (or he and first wife could have been sepRATed and unable to get a Divorce, perhaps bc he had left her and she didn’t want it), or he adopted the child.

I think a lot of depends on your family's attitudes to family history and the time that has elapsed. One of my ancestors had a long running affair with multiple children born whilst whilst one of the couple was still married (they married when the first spouse died but had been living as married and lied on census returns). It was long enough ago that none of the people or their immediate descendants are living now. And lots of my family are into family history so this is something we have happily discussed as an interesting part of our history. But that is our circumstances.

At the same time I have papers that have massively changed how I view a closer relative of mine. They are not alive but their immediate family is. I don't feel comfortable sharing what I have found in that situation because it is still too close to be viewed just as historical interest.

PS I got a gigantic box of my grandparents' courting letters when my grandfather died, and found out that not only did they have sex before marriage, but SHE'D ALREADY DONE IT WITH SOMEONE ELSE. It was clear from the letters that this was a massive, massive deal for them and while I don't care either way, apart from being rather tickled at how hot for each other they were, my now-deceased grandparents would be mortified if they thought anybody knew. So I will not be spreading it around the family.

I do a lot of genealogy work and find it so fascinating!
The DNA testing is particularly interesting as so many people are getting tested now. It can throw up a lot of surprises ! Many 'family secrets' are exposed and paternity is not always who it was thought to be.
In a test that I manage on behalf of a friend, we recently found a cousin for him that no one knew about. It turns out that his grandparents had placed their youngest daughter for adoption shortly after her birth in the 1940's shortly before they divorced. The cousin was the son of the adopted woman. It was a complete surprise to everyone!
In my own family, my mother was adopted as a young child in 1930. Her mother was a single parent and I know her name and a few facts about her. However, it was a complete mystery about who my mother's father was. With DNA testing, I have been able to identify the family he came from, and have narrowed it down to one of two brothers.
I won't do anything with this info, but it has satisfied my curiosity and need to know more about where I come from. I wish my mother was alive to know all the info I have found about both sides of her family biological parents, as she always felt a sense of incompleteness knowing nothing about them.

Thanks all. I’ve discovered this morning that great grandad and first wife married the year my great uncle was born so I’m really baffled. My great uncle seems to have lived with other relatives during his first few years according to records. Was it normal for aunts/uncles to raise a child if born out of wedlock? Seems maybe he went back with his mum when she married my grandads dad. My grandad and his brother definitely grew up together. My great uncle spoke very fondly of his brother and their childhood at his funeral.

She also had the older brother young and unmarried and I believe he was raised by a relative most of his childhood.. I already knew this.

The dna testing fascinates me @MadinMarch. I am soo scared to do it now. I’ve never had my bio father around. He lives locally, I know who he is so that’s not the issue but he told my mom when they were together that he had a child when he was just a teen and never knew them (unsure if male or female). I’d be too scared if find a random long lost sibling and wouldn’t know how to deal with it. They would be a lot older than me too.

@Ellmau
I think, @CD41, that if the birth was formally reregistered, either GGF was the father and this was a longstanding affair (or he and first wife could have been sepRATed and unable to get a Divorce, perhaps bc he had left her and she didn’t want it), or he adopted the child.

If he adopted the child, there would be a completely new certifcate issued.

I worked in a benefits office in the 70s. Even then it was fairly common for the child of a teenaged mother to be brought up by its grandmother as their own or by an older sister. It would come to my notice if either the grandparents had to claim benefit (the actual mother had to pay for the upkeep of child) or if the mother claimed benefit then she could claim for the child.

I see no difference with you snooping around in your grandfather’s history as with you researching your own paternal family tree, and I’m astounded that you’re so keen to research what was obviously chosen to be kept secret when you’re too scared to find your own half sibling(s)

IMO you should get your nose out!

@CD41
Yes. it's a potential minefield.
Sometimes just knowing a bit more can be enough, you don't have to actually approach anyone.
If you did want to take it further, then perhaps you could write to them first, or use an intermediary.
I'd love to know if I had an unknown sibling, but appreciate not everyone is the same.

@GinghamStyle
*I see no difference with you snooping around in your grandfather’s history as with you researching your own paternal family tree, and I’m astounded that you’re so keen to research what was obviously chosen to be kept secret when you’re too scared to find your own half sibling(s)

IMO you should get your nose out!*

That's very harsh!

I’ve discovered this morning that great grandad and first wife married the year my great uncle was born so I’m really baffled. My great uncle seems to have lived with other relatives during his first few years according to records. Was it normal for aunts/uncles to raise a child if born out of wedlock?

It was very common for either an Aunt or the grandmother to bring a baby up if they were born out of wedlock.

Sometimes it was a temporary measure while the mother worked or until she married, but often it was permanent. In big families especially it was very easy for a new youngest child to be tagged on and blend in without suspicion

I worked in a benefits office in the 70s. Even then it was fairly common for the child of a teenaged mother to be brought up by its grandmother as their own or by an older sister.

This happened in my DP's family. One of his cousins was the child of a single teenage mum, but was passed off as the daughter of her actual grandparents. She found out when a young adult that her 'older sister' was actually her mum, and never got over it. She had many years of depression and problems with alcohol following that. It really is worth treading very, very carefully when revealing this kind of information.

I think unless your family are known horror shows, I’d put myself in their shoes. To have potentially raised a child and not told them due to love and damage it could do to tell the child.

Then X amount of years later some family member decides to research the family tree and goes telling everyone, causing untold damage. How would you feel? Not best pleased right?

So yes, keeping it shut is the best route forward. Unless the people involved were cruel parents and you think it would benefit the person to know.

My great uncle seems to have lived with other relatives during his first few years according to records.
Other relatives of your Gt. Grandad or other relatives of Great Uncle's Mum?

The oldest brother was to a different father. She had him young and unmarried. He lived with other relatives.
The middle brother (great uncle) was born the year after Gt. Grandad married first wife. Great uncle lived with other relatives (of his mum?)

Gt. Grandad's first wife dies. About a year later Gt. Grandad marries second wife who is already pregnant. Grandad is born. At some point great uncle's birth registration was altered so that his surname was Gt. Grandad's.

You seem to be assuming that Great Uncle's Dad is Gt. Grandad. Do you have evidence for this? It seems more likely that his Dad is someone else. If I have the facts correct as above, I wouldn't be thinking that Gt. Grandad had an affair and great uncle was a result of this. I'm more inclined to think she had the older brother and great uncle out of wedlock to one or two different men and later married Gt. Grandad.

Sorry, I'm fascinated by this now!

My great grandmother's sisters had children out of wedlock. One was brought up as her younger brother by her parents but the other sister kept her son. He was looked after by another married sister while she worked as a cook in a big house nearby.

Kraejka but the G Uncle's birth is registered with her maiden name and the eventual husband's name. It's far more likely that he was the son of the man his mother married.

I think it probably was fairly common for children to live within the extended family in the past, probably for a variety of reasons. From census records I found this phenomenon a number of times whilst researching my family tree. I assumed that it was probably for economic reasons as it seemed to be children from larger families moving to those with fewer or no children, or to those with what sounded like better financial situations. Sometimes it seemed to be around the time of a birth of a younger sibling, other times I wondered if it was to be a help with an uncle's work. Sometimes they later reappeared in the original family home, sometimes they remained with the new family and sometimes they disappeared. Its all very interesting. I would love to know more but without supporting evidence it will just have to be guesswork.

but the G Uncle's birth is registered with her maiden name and the eventual husband's name. It's far more likely that he was the son of the man his mother married.

Oh I see, it wasn't very clear. I thought you meant it was altered later to include the new name because you wrote
It appears that his name was changed from his mother’s maiden name to my grandads surname
Is there a note in the margin of the registration to indicate a change made later?
In any case, get the birth certificate and see what's on it. If Gt. Grandad's name is on it then mystery (sort of) solved. If father's name is blank or another name then the registration record must have been changed later as they wouldn't have put Gt. Grandad's name on that if it wasn't on the birth certificate.

Was it normal for aunts/uncles to raise a child if born out of wedlock?

Yes and often even registered in the name of the sister/brother/other relative and sometimes many months apart .

although it appears great uncle had his mother’s maiden name at birth Well he would do if illegitimate .