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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to think this can't go on for a whole year??

245 replies

cola2019 · 29/04/2020 13:50

AIBU in thinking that this cannot go on for a year?? My husband seems to think that until there is a vaccine available life cannot go back to normal. I can't envisage not seeing my parents for a year (my dad has cancer so is currently in the sheilding group). He keeps telling me that I need to face up to the fact that we can't see our parents until they have been vaccinated. No shops, no bars, no events, no schools. Surely economically life will have to resume slowly we can't wait till 2021 surely. But as soon as lockdown is lifted and people start mixing then it will spike again.

OP posts:
ChardonnaysPetDragon · 30/04/2020 22:52

Well, you could go and see your parents but keep two metres apart. ie they could stand at the doorway while you talk to them from 2 metres away.

Bit tricky if they don't live in the same town. Many of us have families overseas.

boylovesmeerkats · 30/04/2020 23:02

@psychomath thank you, that's so nice. It's a tough time.

amicissimma · 30/04/2020 23:28

It's not just lives versus the economy.

ONS figures show that the number of non-Covid deaths has been increasing since lockdown and is now (17 April, the latest figures they are using) double what would be expected for this time of year.

While the waters are muddied by people who weren't tested and people who actually died of something else but happened to also have Covid (we don't know if they cancel each other out, at all or to some extent) the figures suggest that it could be lives-of-people-who-will-die-with-Covid versus lives-of-people-who-will-die-of-something-other-than-Covid plus the economy.

Inkpaperstars · 30/04/2020 23:33

I am very worried about what the current restrictions mean in terms of mental health, missed education, traumatic home environments, deferred medical treatments, shuttered businesses going under, people losing their income.

I just struggle to see how many of those things would not also be happening, perhaps to a greater degree even, in a world where the infection was allowed to grow exponentially. Doing the maths on that is terrifying. It's unthinkable that society, the nhs, schools, the economy could function through that.

The lives of those who die of something other than covid that goes untreated...that is caused by covid surely,not the lockdown. Without the lockdown they would not even have been able to keep a and e open and relatively safe to visit. As for the mental health impact on medics, that is already horrific, has already led to suicides. You could expect many more if growth had not been supressed. I can't imagine the general public with mental health issues responding brilliantly to the death tolls either.

At this point I don't know what alternative they have had but to lock down in the hope of getting cases low enough to reopen, at least partially and piecemeal style. It may not be much longer till we can reach that transition phase. Staggering on with that may be the least damaging route for the economy and those threatened by covid.

Inkpaperstars · 30/04/2020 23:36

The lives of those who die of something other than covid that goes untreated...that is caused by covid surely,not the lockdown. Without the lockdown they would not even have been able to keep a and e open and relatively safe to visit.

Just quoting myself here to qualify that I do think there will be some cases where the lockdown itself will have caused or contributed to these deaths, and certainly going forward the way they balance nhs priorities is going to make a massive difference to them. There is lots of room for human error.

cantory · 30/04/2020 23:56

We know from the 1918 flu pandemic that areas that lock downed quickly and hardly had better economic recovery than those that tried to do half hearted measures.
The UK government wants to stop lock down and send everyone back to work so that people get infected. This is deliberate. There will be a second peak of deaths. We will be told this was inevitable, it is not. We will have a second lock down.

I know doing this is way worse for our company that a strong lock down that is one off. The company I work for is closed. It takes time and money to get up and running again to full strength. Closing, opening, closing and opening again will be terrible for our company. It is not the best option.
It is being planned so that nearly everyone gets covid 19 as originally planned.

cantory · 01/05/2020 00:02

No the deaths are caused indirectly by covid 19, lock down makes zero difference.
Deaths are caused either by people being too afraid to go to A and E or GP in case they catch covid 19. Lock down makes no difference.
Or because staff have been redeployed to deal with covid 19 patients so their treatment has been postponed. Not having a lock down does magically mean more staff.
Or because consultants have said it is less risky for a patient to delay treatment than risk getting covid 19. Ending lock down makes zero difference to improve this.

Covid 19 is indirectly killing other people, NOT the lock down.

Paper7i · 01/05/2020 00:03

Chardonnayspetrabbit
You are right on so much and I cannot visit my child in the hospital and hold his hand and reassure him I am here. I was under the crisis team because of what has happened, They can't see me now as they cannot come into the house. I am probably going to lose my job too and I have cancer and other serious illness. on balance I feel I am at risk from all of this damaging my child, my mental health, and physical health and feel the stress of this burden is likely going to finish me off before Covid 19 does. I am sure there are many many people in similar positions to my own. I have no support and live alone. We cannot just become collateral damage.

Tubs11 · 01/05/2020 00:40

@fartingsparkles

So so sorry to hear that. You sound like a strong woman, keep going. Sending strength and love Flowers

wafflyversatile · 01/05/2020 00:44

Of course you will be able to see your parents but life will not be normal until there is a vaccine.

cantory · 01/05/2020 01:11

@wafflyversatile The OPs father has cancer. If the OP ends up mixing with others and being at risk of catching covid 19, then it would be very dangerous to pass that onto her father. That is why there is a shielded group. These are the people identified as most likely to die if they catch it.

wafflyversatile · 01/05/2020 01:18

Yes I saw that.

cantory · 01/05/2020 01:19

Then I don't understand you saying that of course she can see her father before there is a vaccine.

Leaannb · 01/05/2020 01:53

@cantor because it's going to at least a year or more for a vaccine. Vaccines don't always work. Viruses love to mutate and the vaccine will probably have to be modified. All of the ignorant work-related in the world etc....

randomchatter · 01/05/2020 08:00

*It's not just lives versus the economy.

ONS figures show that the number of non-Covid deaths has been increasing since lockdown and is now (17 April, the latest figures they are using) double what would be expected for this time of year.

While the waters are muddied by people who weren't tested and people who actually died of something else but happened to also have Covid (we don't know if they cancel each other out, at all or to some extent) the figures suggest that it could be lives-of-people-who-will-die-with-Covid versus lives-of-people-who-will-die-of-something-other-than-Covid plus the economy.*

@amicissimma

Just wanted to add that it's likely that Covid-19 is also adding to an increase in life changing conditions that would have been detected/ treated and corrected early ... such as blindness, Diabetes T2. Even dental problems which untreated can lead to infection and death if not treated!

I'm not suggesting that the current system isn't the right solution to this dangerous virus. Just that once we have a vaccine and this particular virus is dealt with, this particular will have a toll on life changing conditions as well as deaths.

Then we will have another new virus/pandemic to deal with and I hope with this one we will learn how to cope and put in place measures to deal with them as we do with predicting and planning for global wars.

cantory · 01/05/2020 08:36

@leeannb A vaccine is predicted for the end of the year. Yes there may need to be an annual vaccination programme like flu. I would stay away from my father for a year if seeing him could kill him.

cantory · 01/05/2020 08:40

@randomchatter The people who die of something else because they go untreated would happen with or without lock down.

ChardonnaysPetDragon · 01/05/2020 09:08

I'm glad you agree, Paper7i, even though you downgraded me a bit, Grin

Seriously, though, I'm sorry you are struggling. You can contact your Crisis team and they should be able to talk to you over the phone. Hope things get better.

ChardonnaysPetDragon · 01/05/2020 09:12

The people who die of something else because they go untreated would happen with or without lock down.

No they won't because they would receive a diagnosis and treatment. At the moment this isn't happening for many people.

cantory · 01/05/2020 09:15

And why do you think that is?

HelloItsmeAgain1 · 01/05/2020 09:17

Yes and no.The bit about seeing your parents is a tough one. :(

ChardonnaysPetDragon · 01/05/2020 09:23

Why do I think what is?

Because we "protecting the NHS" instead if the NHS protecting us?

You are saying the people who will die of something else will die with or without lockdown.

I'm saying you are wrong and they many will die because they are undiagnosed and untreated because of lockdown.

I'm not sure I follow your argumentation there, and that's not for the first time.

trappedsincesundaymorn · 01/05/2020 09:26

Also, for those saying thy can’t cope with another few weeks not seeing their family. Is the strain on your mental health as bad as them being dead? Or you being dead? Or knowing you made your mum dead

Have you ever had to mourn the loss of someone you love in isolation? Until you have then do not presume to think that the strain on your mental health is not huge. My dad is at home alone trying to come to terms with the death of my mum, the woman he was married to for 57 years. Me and my sisters (1 of whom lives overseas), cannot come together and be with him when he needs us most. Do you honestly think that a skype/video call is good enough? If this carries on much longer it won't be C-19 that gets my dad it will be grief and loneliness.

cantory · 01/05/2020 09:31

@ChardonnaysPetDragon
Clinics are not happening because there are not enough staff. That would happen without lock down.
People are not going to DP because they are worried they will catch covid 19. Bot being on lock down does not stop people being afraid.
What stops people being afraid is having a low daily rate of deaths. Yesterdays was still over 800.

cantory · 01/05/2020 09:33

@trappedsincesundaymorn I am not seeing my parents until there is a vaccine. They are going nowhere and seeing no one, having home deliveries. How could they possibly catch it? They will stay well and we will have big family celebrations next year. Both could easily live another 10-15 years.