Relocating to the US this year?

[Jamandbreadd]

Looking for views from people particularly those based in the US I guess. We were supposed to relocate with dh job to the US (NYC) next month. Clearly this was put off quite quickly due to covid, we were jsut beginning visa applications with his company in March and nothing further has happened. I now have no idea what to expect. Obviously no crystal ball, but how realistic is it that we will relocate to NY this year now? And/or would you think it was crazy to go ahead with it?
Need some advice as I hear some very scary things coming out of the US and our whole year has been thrown into doubt. Our jobs are fine (for now) if we stay in the U.K. Dh is very excited about this opportunity but we have a school age dd and I don’t wish to put anyone at risk.
Any thoughts at all?

Like all the posters here, I’d be hesitant in moving to the US. I was born there, to a Brit father and American mother and moved to the UK at age three. DH and I usually visit the States every year with our parents (mum’s family is from Malibu) so we had settled in California and go there every year. My father emigrated to the US a few years before I was born and worked in a tech company, this was the 80s so things have changed now. Both my parents actually found it tough, the culture shock was massive as my mother had been living in the UK for fifteen years prior to her move back to the US with my father. My father couldn’t rent a house due to some difficulties in the first year so stayed with my maternal grandparents.

I recall dad saying that he was very worried about leaving the house all the time in case of someone firing guns. It’s also the little things like shopping is usually done in bulk in shops that are like the UK retail parks. If you want to visit other states, you’ll either fly or drive for several days. Each state is federalised so rules in one state won’t necessary apply in another.

Both countries are very different and I’d strongly advise into doing more research, my father could not leave the US without my mother if I was to come too. My parents were nearly on the verge of a split which would make things difficult but they did it and are still together. The US isn’t an awful awful country but the culture is vastly different there and it may take a while before you get settled, should you move.

He's asking you to give up an awful lot here OP.

Your job/career, owning your own home, having another baby....

I would say unless the numbers work out i.e. a salary many times more than what he earns now, to enable you to save for that property when you move back and compensate for your lack of job and maybe pay for some college while you're not working.... Then it's really not worth it.

He's not naive, he just thinks he is more important than you in the grand scheme of things.

I agree with Sex here, who put the point I tried to make in a far more articulate way!

You are losing everything for a few years of his adventure? I’d be worried about career prospects back here if you really struggle to find work over there.

If you are happy where you are OP, which it sounds like you are, I would be very hesitant to leave a career and rental in this economic climate. Even if you do come back in a few years, there are no guarantees that you would be able to afford to live in London again (assuming you would want to), or be able to find a decent job. It sounds like he wants to do it, and is willing to sacrifice buying a house etc in order to do it. Which is fine, it seems like a good opportunity (for him). Also be aware that he might be in work a lot, and it will be down to you to build a social and support network whilst being on your own for a lot of the day. It can be quite challenging to do that if you aren't working, he won't experience the same though as he likely will build up a friendship circle through his job, and won't necessarily understand what you are going through. Also in a few years he might want to apply to stay, and obviously that will affect your plans. Not meaning to sound negative, but there is so much more to it than just moving for a few years and then popping back to where you left off. Of course you might love it, and be really happy there.

Thank you so much for the frank replies. My family are just all about what an adventure it is and how lucky I am but I’m in my 30s with a kid and career I worked hard for, I’m not footloose really. I value stability and covid has made me see what we have here.

Not quite the same, but I used to follow DH around for his postings, and even in this country with a support available as part of the package essentially it was tough. I am so much happier now we are settled and I can actually have a career. It suits some people which is fine, but it's a lot he is asking you to gamble. Presumably his job is secure anyway, and he will have a job here after, so he isn't risking half as much.

I would put on hold for the year and re-consider after the November election. That will tell you a lot about what the future may look like and you can have a few more months perspective to make a decision.

I'm American but left almost 10 years ago (live in the UK now). You couldn't pay me any amount of money to return. Not even for the experience for living abroad (there are plenty of other nicer places to go anyway). NYC is great (lived there for many years in my 20s), but I wouldn't want to live there with dc unless you have lots and lots of money. I mean a salary in the 200K+ range. Or your employer will be providing housing and very good health insurance. It's also really expensive. I mean all of America, not just New York. Except for fuel. That's cheap.

But a lot of it is down to cultural differences. Even as an American, because I've lived abroad for so much of my life (not just the UK, but other places), I find it really hard to adjust back. People are rude and pushy and sort of obnoxious. I don't mean everyone, obviously, because I have lots of friends and family in the US and many of them are individually very nice. But just the way people speak to you in shops or in public transport or people you stop and have a conversation with. I mean in a really general sense, people aren't quite as easy to deal with as they are here.

The political and religious beliefs are also really difficult to deal with unless you yourself are quite right wing. It's always been this way relative to other places, but I would say it's gotten much worse in the past 12 years or so and certainly much, much worse since Trump.

I just wouldn't want to live there again. I don't even like visiting that much. But I would say in normal circumstances, a year in NYC would be great, assuming you have the salary and the housing options to make it work (and can afford private school). I wouldn't do it now though. The economy will be changing significantly in the next few months in the US and unlike here, there is really very little social safety net for most Americans to fall back on, so times will be very tough there. If things settle towards the end of the year, I'd consider it then. I work in central London and I don't even know that I'll be going back to my office until September or so, so there surely isn't too much rush and you could continue to work from the UK.

I'm American from NY but live in England (southeast but not London) for my husband and we live here in part due to a lot of reasons mentioned above. Sure my salary is pitiful here (and hard work is much more valued in the states than at least where I work in the UK). But I don't have to pay health insurance, groceries are significantly cheaper in the UK, as are a lot of other things. We recently bought a house which we never could have afforded to save for near my parents, and I wouldn't necessarily want to move to a cheaper place in the states away from them. If you want to have another baby there remember not every part of your and baby's medical care will be covered by insurance.

I will say in NY some of the complaints above don't apply. I don't know anyone with a gun, or who approves of guns, there. NYers are also straight shooters so will not be fake nice. They'll be cordial but it's not that BS southern "bless your heart" meaning "fuck off" etc. NYers are very proud of where they live and will help lost tourists etc which is a nice trait I haven't observed at such a scale anywhere else I've been. But they will be upfront and don't sugar coat things. It's a very different culture than in the rest of the country. NYers also walk more than many other states--that story about driving from store to store really made me laugh because you would never ever get parking like that in NY. My dad drives to work and he leaves himself literally an hour to find parking (but he's cheap and won't pay for a garage haha).

@Jamandbreadd to me it sounds like you've got two problems:

1 - you don't want to go to the US
2 - you're scared to talk to your husband

IMO, 2 is a much bigger issue. PLEASE don't move across the world with a man you can't have a difficult conversation with! Communication is so important, if you don't feel you can talk to him about your issues you should be really rethinking the relationship.

@Someone I just feel guilty because I agreed to the move.. feeling slightly pressured because I knew he wanted it but on a wave of goodwill.. and COViD has made me massively have a change of heart about it being a good idea. I can’t imagine moving right now. I haven’t been in the office for 6 weeks, I’m homeschooling dd, haven’t seen family or friends for weeks. We can’t possibly move anytime soon. And the thought of losing my very hard earned savings for the sake of a frivolous move terrifies me.
I guess I feel like I’m not allowed to change my mind now. It’s clear dh is undeterred by the pandemic, not that that’s right, but he still thinks we are going.

3 points:

You absolutely have the right to change your mind. Your agreement to move was based on insufficient information. Do not move unless you are totally convinced it's the best thing for YOU. And not just now, but potentially forever - or at least until any child yet to be born turns 18. [And even then..... the pain of leaving adult children may be more than you can bear...]

Are you absolutely sure that your marriage is strong enough to meet the challenges that you will face as a result of such a move? Really, really think about that.

Last: your child's father may not be in the picture, but you will still need his permission, or a court order, to remove her from the UK.

@FlowerArranger he isn’t on her birth certificate so that’s not correct regarding taking her out of the U.K. We don’t have contact with him and he doesn’t have parental responsibility/legal rights.

We had discussed the possibility of such a move before because his specialist skill is in high demand in US tech companies. I think I liked the idea and was in a bit of a London rut right up til earlier this year and now covid has made me appreciate everything tenfold. And not want to leave my/his elderly parents, or interrupt dd’s schooling Further.
Why do I feel like I’m not allowed to change my mind?

Sorry my comments may be meaningless as I thought I was posting on a similar thread. have reported and asked for it to be removed.

The state schools in New York are terrible. For the cost of private schools in New York City, your daughter could board in the UK. Although it sounds harsh, that might be a good option. Could you choose a school near friends and relatives for expats and breaks? She could fly over for Xmas and Easter.
New York is dirty, expensive, and chaotic. Manners are poor, and people are very pushy. I'm an American, and would never live there.

@Erica why are state schools so bad? I thought it’s mainly down to district as to whether you get a good one? Dd is 6 so I wasn’t so worried on the basis of a temporary (2 year) move, she’s bright and hitting her educational milestones fine.

I think you are rightly having second thoughts.

As an outsider reading your posts, I don't see what's in it for you. I think you're going to have to sit down and talk. And he has to listen.

One further thought if you a) do get a job and b) have another child. Their maternity leave is terrible.

His paternity leave would be good (6 mos paid) so that’s what he says whenever I’ve brought up poor mat leave in the US. However from experience I don’t see myself going back to work after like a month and letting him be the stay at home parent.. how many mums would want to?! So that’s a good point. To be honest we had said that babies would have to wait til we were back in a couple of years. I’m 32... it is a slight worry that if we had any trouble conceiving we would be waiting longer than needed.
This thread is really helping me work it through before the conversation. Thanks all

Of course you can change your mind, OP.

I would say to your DH that you fully understand what's in it for him; what does he think is in it for you? No hints - let him reply.

You will have to give up an excellent job here which you presumably enjoy and are unlikely to replicate in NY even if you get a visa to work. Schools in the US have armed guards to attempt to prevent mass school shootings of which there have been 180 in the last ten years? If you have a pregnancy in the US, insurance may not cover all costs. The child will be identified as American and subject to US taxes and also later may be conscripted into the military. If you choose to return, your DH can refuse to allow you to to bring your child with you.

It's said the UK and US are two nations divided by a common language.

I’m not sure I should have felt pressured to say yes . Dh has form for not thinking stuff through and being a bit short sighted but it felt like if I said no to this I would be hurting his career in some way. In reality he has a good job at that company in London and they want to keep him either way, he earns great here, and his job is very low stress and good work life balance. I have heard NY is less like that in terms of work culture.
I spoke to one of my company’s people in the US and they said they wouldn’t move to NY at any point in the medium term future. I feel like I am arming myself with stuff I can say to dh. His dad is very vulnerable to covid and is in the shielding category, but this doesn’t seem to have occurred to dh. It’s like he thinks he can just pack up a whole life and move to another completely different city on a whim. I think that’s the thing you can only do when you’re mid twenties with no ties, because it’s just all exciting and few logistics. Not like finding a house, finding a good school, settling a kid in, getting all new bank accounts/phones, being nowhere near support in terms of babysitting and stuff, moving our stuff, relocating our pet(!), it’s just so much... and he hasn’t considered it. He vaguely wants to live “in Brooklyn” in a cool flat. I don’t get it. We live in probably the equivalent area in London and he rarely wants to avail of the facilities. Our flat here is too small but it’s loved and has enabled us to save a good house deposit, admittedly not London-good but for most anywhere else in the U.K. as of now. We both have flexible supportive well paying employers, I’ve had to use nhs dental services a lot the last few years and that’s been great for me and I really value it. Dd is doing good in school and she loves her grandparents and friends. I have a few really great friends who I value seeing and speaking to.
I dunno why it took a pandemic and sort of falling back in love with the U.K. for me to see this clearly but it really needs a sit down and frank talk. I think dh is immature at least about this. He can still work there whenever if he wants but I don’t need to go too. Others make that work. Right?

If you don't think you can ask him the question I suggested in my earlier thread, how about you sit down with him and write a list of the pros and cons of the move for him, you and your DD.

It may be an easier way to start off the discussion and seeing it written down he may begin to understand. Otherwise it's easy for a verbal conversation to go in one ear and out the other.

Re your last paragraph, I have not been in that situation so can't help, sorry.

As a Brit who's lived in the US for 25 years(not NYC which is a whole different thing) and has had a great experience here, I think this doesn't sound like the right time for you to move for all the things you are concerned about. But properly maintaining a relationship over that magnitude of long distance is really hard in terms of time and also money. It's not quite the same but I'm an only child and the only joy in my mother's life and it has been very, very hard on me financially and time wise to give her proper time and attention while being a decent partner to my partner here. Good luck, whatever you decide.

Take a look at the thread ‘need to share - no solutions’ on the relationship board re an op moving abroad and having regrets

We were due to move to the US by summer 2017. It didn't happen as the company's immigration lawyers spectacularly messed up and couldn't get the visa we were told was a dead cert. DH was first approached by that part of his company 2 years previously but couldn't progress because of he was British. Even after that two years of them attempting to recruit an American, they were unsuccessful and approached DH again. But they were told again that they couldn't bring in a non US employee.

I'm somewhat relieved as Trump is way too volatile for my liking and things have worked out much better for us overall in England despite a rollercoaster ride since 2016. It would have been hard for me to have got a job and visa too.