To think the NHS is no longer fit for purpose

[alloutofducks]

I have just had a hospital consultation cancelled, following 6 months of extreme pain. I can apparently go back on the list, along with everyone else, in the Autumn. This is "because Covid", as the departmental secretary said on the phone.

The NHS can't cope with Covid. If it can cope with Covid itself, it won't be able to cope with the MH problems caused by lockdown. If it somehow miraculously copes with Covid and the resulting MH problems caused by lockdown, it certainly won't be able to cope with people in extreme pain for other reasons. Or people with long-term, life-limiting conditions.

The NHS was set up at a particular point in history where it worked as a model due to the make-up of the population (among other things).

There was none of the mawkish "our NHS" sentiment: it did its job, and did it reasonably well, on balance.

Now it seems that the increasing sentimentality about it is in direct proportion to its essential failure as a system.

We don't become tearful and pot-bangish about "our education system", for example. While we may sometimes feel like weeping with gratitude about the long-suffering teachers who have to put up with our DC on a daily basis, we expect the education system to get on with educating our children. Likewise, we expect the legal system (again: not "our" legal system) to uphold the law. And so on.

This is not a dig at anyone who works for the NHS (my sister and her partner do, for context). But AIBU to think the NHS simply doesn't work now and needs radically overhauling, preferably in a cross-party way?

Call me cynical but my take on the mawkish sentiments are a government spin to distract people from the obvious fact that difficulties the NHS are having, aside from a novel pandemic, are caused by government cutbacks and underfunding.

It’s massively underfunded. It’s still ‘free at the point of access’ healthcare universally available to all citizens. That’s huge.

This is a global pandemic that ALL health systems in all countries are struggling to cope with. It’s not really the time to be dismantling it but by but -but you can be sure the Tories will get right back on that as soon as they can, aided by opinions like yours.

Once it’s gone, we’ll understand its value.

Who else would be coping with Covid though, OP, if not the NHS? We don't have anybody else waiting in the wings and this is the most pressing issue at the moment.

It's shit that it's going to cause some non-Covid people to die, it definitely will. I'm sorry that your appointment will be delayed.

The NHS does need a reform but I'm not sure that it needs dissecting right now this minute by people who can't do anything about it anyway. Impotent blethering just gives an opening to those who want to spread misery and disquiet, and achieves nothing good.

I hope that everybody will be lobbying their MPs very hard and frequently to effect change, not ranting here.

Numerous governments have overhauled (aka cut funding and increased bureaucracy) in the 28 years since I started working in the NHS. It's happened too often and by and large his not benefitted patients. The introduction of Gp fundholding, internal markets and other innovations have all contributed to where it is today, with a lot of help from funding cuts and changes to staff training and welfare. The only consistency has been the dedication of many, many staff.

Oh good shall we have yet another NHS bashing thread? As if morale isn’t low enough.

They need to stop the waste and cull about 75% of the needless managers.

It hasn't failed anything. You may not have noticed but waiting lists were stupendously long for a long time before all this. Some of us were "banging on about this" for, oh, the odd few decades. As we fought against successive governments underfunding and systematically dismantling of the greatest health care system in the world. You now have what you asked for and paid for. Don't you like it?

I do think it’s massively underfunded but as shown with the Blair years it’s not just a throw money at the problem, it needs to be better managed. It needs to be managed like a business not a charity.

Do you think nations like the USA without a free at point of care health system are coping better?

We are privileged in the extreme to have the NHS, no matter how badly-funded and poorly-managed it may be.

Sigh.......there are very few healthcare systems in the WORLD coping with Covid and actually according to a lot of doctors this weekend they are easily coping capacity wise now.

Also unless you can say you've never booked a GP appointment for something that could be treated either at home or by a pharmacist then you can't really criticise on its "fitness for purpose". If we are all entirely honest with ourselves we've all abused and taken it for granted.

Most employers have private healthcare policies which would likely have covered your ailment but lots of people opt out to save the paltry some of £30 a month - who is also guilty of not using it??

The NHS is fab and is coping as best as it can in this time. I’ve had to go on a waiting list for a scan which in normal times would have been done quicker (missing coil) but hey, not the end of the world. But my older brother was admitted last week with kidney problems and stayed for two days, no problem. Where he was it wasn’t even that busy and it’s a major teaching hospital in a large city. Yes they’re struggling but there is still plenty of help available.

It isnt a matter of it being completely free or being completely private. I think there needs to be a sensible conversation about whether certain treatments need to be co funded.

I know, I know for some people the NHS is a religion but honestly it cannot carry on in its current format, I wouldn’t mind sharing some of the cost for certain ailments. A friend of mine is a paramedic and he feels that it is massively abused by a sizeable minority who know nothing will happen, no fines, no refusal to take an individual’s 999 call because they have abused before.

Trust me, it’s still better than where I am now (US). You cannot even get tested, even with symptoms, even if you are in an at risk group, unless you can name someone already tested OR you are at deaths door.
Tests are free, but everything else costs $$$$$, including visit to ER, admission to hospital, a painkiller or antibiotics, even the plaster that they cover your injection site with. Not all costs are covered by insurance (if you are lucky enough to have good insurance). I have a $400 a year co-pay excess. Illness last year (non surgical) actually cost me over 5K. I’m lucky in that I could afford it, and that was actually a low cost. But I dread getting old, not having any insurance or money.
The NHS needs proper funding. It needs the government’s to stop messing about with trusts and suchlike and use the money we have paid in NI contributions to fund it properly and stop paying quite so much to the non medical management staff.

Why do we always look to the US to compare, compare to our European partners!

@onlyfoolsnmothers

I lived in Vienna - You had to present a specific card to receive treatment. If you were not an Austrian Citizen paying into the system each month, you had to pay tax. Your employer paid your healthcare bill each month and if you weren’t employed you paid the 300€ yourself.

People in this country don’t know they are born:

Maybe if people weren’t allowed pointless treatments like cosmetic surgery and gender reassignment (and then reversal), or people had to pay if not UK Citizens, they wouldn’t be so stretched.

*you had to pay for your treatment

I think at some point there needs to be an honest consultation about what the NHS can and cannot do. If we want the NHS to do everything for everybody as we seem to then we will all need to pay far higher levels of tax. But now (during a crisis) is not the time.

It may be slightly underfunded, but I believe the waste in the nhs is the real problem.

It is UNBELIEVABLE. From the managerial incompetency right down to the staff using and throwing away expensive equipment willy nilly, it’s no mystery how skint they are when you see how much is wasted.

110% agree OP. I for one wholey support universal healthcare. But the NHS as a system is shit. I prefer the European style models. Read Kristian Niemitz book "universal healthcare without the NHS". Also the US system isn't total pants. They actually have the largest global innovation in medical technology.

If ours isn't then neither is Italy's or Spain's, or all the others that are scrabbling to manage.

Is it me or has there been a flush of "the NHS is shit" threads all of a sudden?

If you don't like the NHS service you could always go private.

I appreciate your frustration though. It's ridiculous so many people are having important appointments cancelled due to covid, yet so many of the new Nightingale hospitals aren't even close to capacity. It's a consequence of poor governance.

I’ve been quoted £120 for fully comprehensive private health insurance. I’m taking it because I think the chances of any of us being treated before we die of anything other than covid would be quite high. I’m happy to pay tax and NI in case I’m run over by a bus and private for everything else. Seems logical

Well it is coping with Covid by having empty wards in the new hospitals and cancellini h other treatment - why? To prevent other staff getting it? I can't imagine they've all been redeployed as it appears we still have capacity.

£120 per month for 5 of us. Bloody bargain if you ask me

Ours is £75 for me and DH Chrissie. I havent got the kids covered as so far I’ve found the nhs ok with kids.