To think the NHS is no longer fit for purpose

[alloutofducks]

I have just had a hospital consultation cancelled, following 6 months of extreme pain. I can apparently go back on the list, along with everyone else, in the Autumn. This is "because Covid", as the departmental secretary said on the phone.

The NHS can't cope with Covid. If it can cope with Covid itself, it won't be able to cope with the MH problems caused by lockdown. If it somehow miraculously copes with Covid and the resulting MH problems caused by lockdown, it certainly won't be able to cope with people in extreme pain for other reasons. Or people with long-term, life-limiting conditions.

The NHS was set up at a particular point in history where it worked as a model due to the make-up of the population (among other things).

There was none of the mawkish "our NHS" sentiment: it did its job, and did it reasonably well, on balance.

Now it seems that the increasing sentimentality about it is in direct proportion to its essential failure as a system.

We don't become tearful and pot-bangish about "our education system", for example. While we may sometimes feel like weeping with gratitude about the long-suffering teachers who have to put up with our DC on a daily basis, we expect the education system to get on with educating our children. Likewise, we expect the legal system (again: not "our" legal system) to uphold the law. And so on.

This is not a dig at anyone who works for the NHS (my sister and her partner do, for context). But AIBU to think the NHS simply doesn't work now and needs radically overhauling, preferably in a cross-party way?

Its not massively underfunded. yes it is underfunded but its also massively mismanaged. Also, the original intention of the service has been somewhat lost over the years and we are expecting it to cover things which it was never set up to do.

Isnt it amazing how quiet a and e is. yes, some of it is people who need it not going but an awful lot more is people who shouldnt have been there in the first place. it needs a massive root and branch review, not more money chucking at it. But no government has got the bottle to do this unfortunately.

The rest of the world is doing similar to us or worse, and also not coping with coronavirus right now.

The way the NHS is managed is far more the issue.

Some very interesting comments here.

I don't even begin to have an answer to what the alternative might be. I lived abroad for a while when I was younger, and being ill wasn't cheap! I can't remember the details as I was too young and it is too long ago, but I do know everyone was covered either directly (as a result of paying into the system) or indirectly (as a result of qualifying for free treatment). It was quick and efficient. Though, as I say, that was a long time ago and may not be that way now.

I am sure waste plays a role. I have worked for a similar organisation, and the waste was immense. Plus there were so many people employed for nebulous purposes (unlike the front-line staff, or their managers).

I think I agree with @OnlyFoolsnMothers that it needs to be run more like a business (which I think is what I'm trying to get at when I say 'cross party' - I think it ought to be detached from party politics, and shouldn't be a plaything of whichever party happens to be in power).

@CaptainBlunderpants I did say in my OP that I'm not NHS bashing, and that I have close family who work for the NHS. I have had life-saving emergency treatments twice. I have seen spectacularly brilliant doctors/consultants, and spectacularly rubbish ones - as you would expect in any big organisation. When a healthcare system works, it works brilliantly (though I still don't mist up when I'm talking about it).

@Moondust001 I didn't ask for anything. The current situation, and the knowledge that I will now remain in pain for another 6 plus months just makes me wonder about it all.

@Daffodilsandscaffolding Thanks for the book recommendation. I will read it.

I think you have misunderstood the concept of global pandemic if you think because a health service is not "coping" (whatever you define that to mean) with COVID then it is failing.

I was reflecting today that the NHS have indeed coped very well in that we have not been inundated like Italy, for instance.

Other things have suffered and these need attention.

In terms of being "fit for purpose", this is a throwaway term used a lot. What do you mean by it? What is it's purpose? The NHS serves a multitude of services everyday. Today for example, I was unfortunate enough to have to take my son in for treatment for a pulled elbow. He was seen in A&E, x-rayed, treated (manipulated back into place) and discharged in under an hour. All free at the point of care.

Please stop the NHS bashing. As someone who works for the NHS, I understand it's failings more keenly than many and it has been chronically underfunded by the Tory government. Hence, why I don't clap, virtue signalling propaganda. However, right now they need our support. The NHS is people, most of who are doing an exceptional job

@ChrissieKeller61 Would you mind saying how you found that insurance? I can't afford it at the moment (can't even afford £1.20, thanks to Covid-related job loss), but if I ever get a job again, I would be interested in trying to find something that would cover me plus DC (18, but a student, so also has no money, and 16). Absolutely not ideal (and would presumably be no use at the moment anyway, as I don't think private consultations are going ahead either), but if I could afford to see someone now, I most certainly would. I would at least like to know what's wrong with me, even if they can't do anything about it!

Do you think nations like the USA without a free at point of care health system are coping better?

The only treatments canceled in my state are elective surgeries. I had an appointment Friday for a medication check. I've had dental work done since the lockdown. Cancer treatments are still going forward.

Anyone with symptoms in my state is being tested.

I understand your point kdubs. And yes people should be greatful and thankful to the NHS doctors, nurses and medical staff who are saving our lives. But can we not make valid criticisms of the actual system itself? Not the people. But the system in which they work in? A system I personally would like to see changed.

Of course it can’t cope, there’s a global pandemic going on, haven’t you noticed? No country is coping perfectly, never mind a health system that’s deliberately been underfunded for several years by the government that the public keep voting in despite being aware of this!

I think there needs to be a sensible conversation about whether certain treatments need to be co funded.

This. And IVF (I'm infertile and have no kids, not a mum making this statement) needs to be top of that list.

We need to be looking at not prescribing where the medication is available cheaply OTC.

We need to value what we have and stop abusing it.

Tonemeth - absolutely and that starts with all of us. people pitch up to a and e at the drop of a hat because they lack the resilience to sort their bloody selves out most of the time. we have always known this and covid has proved it.

I am seriously worried about the disconnect in elderly services and also the fact that some groups of people - alcohol and drugs but other issues - pitch up to a and e a couple of times a week if not more and are even on first name terms with staff. thats not what the national health service is for. they need proper targetted support to sort out their addiction issues.

I have health insurance, but in an emergency I would still need to call 999.

It’s incredibly easy to sit and criticise. There is mismanagement and waste, yes. But the NHS is a phenomenal beast that deserves gratitude and respect. It’s outrageous to look at it struggling during a fucking once in a generation pandemic - EVERYONE IS STRUGGLING - and use that as some sort of bar.

@Tonemeth and @mummymeister

Both of you are correct. Pharmacies need to be utilised far more.

The NHS hasn't been fit for purpose for years! Absolute rubbish. I've had loads of poor experiences. THe latest was being sent to the acute dependency ward to be forgotten about for 3 hours. I do have private healthcare but that doesn't help for maternity or emergency care.

The NHS is an extremely poorly managed money sink and needs either abolishing or a complete overhaul.

I'm in the mind that we get insurance for emergencies and big serious stuff. But the rest is out of pocket. With the gov stepping in for the poor? Don't they have healthcare savings accounts for this in Singapore?

You do realise there’s a worldwide pandemic going on... the first one in 100 years don’t you?

I actually thing the NHS are doing a flipping amazing job under the circumstances!

You can't afford £1.20 but you are NHS bashing? Good luck getting private health care to help with your problem.
I think the NHS does a fab job and I have had to use it several times in the last few years.
Don't like it..Don't use it simple really.

Letsgrinkgin which managers do you mean to get rid of ? The ward managers who are invariably nurses and still do clinical shifts ?

The NHS can usually cope just fine, but in case you hadn’t noticed were in the middle of a fucking pandemic that the government didn’t prepare for. The NHS is working its arse off now to keep you safe by not letting you into a building rammed to the gills with CV-19 patients, and so that it can deploy as many staff as possible in an effort to stop more people dying.

@Thegirl that's an unfair statement to make as we all have to pay taxes into the NHS. It's not unreasonable that we demand to get good treatment. I'm not too sure how the NHS preforms in global healthcare metrics. But I think and I emphasise think that the NHS doesn't do that well.

And to the person upthread who said it needed to be funded like a business not a charity- it already is and that’s the problem. Creating an artificial competitive market between nhs trusts is pointless and explains why there are been problems with obtaining ppe in some trusts and not others.

Yawn

@daffodils

Lol. The NHS doesn’t perform so well because the taxes you think we pay towards it are nothing in comparison to what people pay in the other countries. It’s overstretched.

@mummymeister absolutely. A and e is a perfect example of how the nhs is abused.

That said it isnt perfect. I dont know the current stats, but it used to be at least 1/5 young people with cancer were diagnosed in a and e. That's a primary care issue.

My worry is that after this, the NHS will be untouchable, you will never be able to question the care of lack of you receive
I saw an article this week which questioned the clapping and NHS love in when people have sued them to the tune of 83.3 million in the last few years for medical negligence.

I do believe a lot of the inadequacy within the NHS is due to a lack of funding and poor management. But I also think that due to a decline in nurses and consultants, they can't afford to ditch the deadwood as it were, so those who either should've been put out to pasture or sacked as they really do suck at the job are allowed to carry on as they lack staff as it is.
I say this as someone who is aware that an alternative, American system would be financially catastrophic for some, but I've experienced some of the very worst behaviour and lack of even the most basic care due to a lack of joined up thinking.

In any profession, if you suck at your job, you get sacked. Why should the NHS be any different?

Totally what @Letsdrinkgin said 🙌🏻